Graflex.org

jpmose · Joined: 29 May 2001 Posts: 164 Location: Atlanta, GA

Sadly in 1973, lenses stamped "Optar" came to an end. Last month I posted "Start of Optar Name". Now I am curious about the later years. The relationship with Rodenstock has always been unclear to me. I know that ALL 135mm Optars supplied with the Graflex 1000 shutter are f/4.5 are made by Rodenstock. However, 135mm Optars supplied with the Graphex shutter are all f/4.7 and appear to have never changed through 1973. Did Wollensak continue to supply 135mm f/4.7 Optars through 1973 while Rodenstock supplied ONLY the 135mm f/4.5 Optars (used with 1000 shutter)?

I'll bet Les can answer this.....

jpmose · Joined: 29 May 2001 Posts: 164 Location: Atlanta, GA

One more point that makes me think that Rodenstock only supplied Optars for use with the 1000 shutter: The 135mm Rodenstock Optar with 1000 shutter and 270mm Tele Optar with 1000 shutter have a different serial number series (same as other Rodenstock lenses) while the 135mm Optar with Graphex shutter uses the conventional serial number system typical of Wollensak supplied lenses.

Again, this is no big deal...only my curiousity.

Les · Joined: 09 May 2001 Posts: 2682 Location: Detroit, MI

Sadly in 1973, lenses stamped "Optar" came to an end."

Are we sure that Optars lasted this long?
I noticed the Graphex shutter was replaced with the Copal for later Crown specials, and the Rodenstock Ysarex replaced the Xenar even later than that.

jpmose · Joined: 29 May 2001 Posts: 164 Location: Atlanta, GA

Well Les, that is a good question. I do have an early (and probably the last) 1973 Graflex catalog. They still list the 135mm Optar in Graphex shutter but that's about it from the good old days. Regarding Crown Graphic Specials...I have always seen this camera offered with a Xenar, which could be supplied with a Compur or Copal shutter (Copal in later years). I have never seen a "Special" with a Graphex shutter or Optar for that matter (of course I am speaking in new teams only since the lens could be switched in aftermarket).

jpmose · Joined: 29 May 2001 Posts: 164 Location: Atlanta, GA

It could be that Graflex had an inventory of Optars which lasted until the end. Similar case: The Linhof select Zeiss lenses (Biogon, Planar and Sonnar) ceased production in late 1971/early 1972 yet were listed in Linhof catalogs though the late 1970's because of excess inventory.

We may never know the true answer to the Graflex situation in final years.

My final statement...and I will give it a rest....I am STILL of the opinion that Rodenstock supplied all Optars that were fitted with the 1000 shutter for use on models "Super Speed Graphic" and "Speed Graphic Model 1000". They have Rodenstock engraved and a Rodenstock serial number. All other Optars that I have seen in later years DO NOT have Rodenstock engraved and have the typical Wollensak or Graflex serial number series (for example - all 135mm Optars with Graphex shutter appear to have a six digit number, then in the mid/late 1950's...a "G" with a five digit number.

None of this really matters...I just have an interst in Graflex history!

_________________
Best regards,

JP Mose

Graflex Sid · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 221 Location: London,England

Hello JP,
Yes,I agree,a very fascinating subject this-I suppose we could go on for hours but never get bored...anyhow,it keeps the flame going for the dear old GRAPHIC whatever we talk about...
Keep those shutters tensioned,and the film holders loaded..

Regards All...

Dan Fromm · Joined: 14 May 2001 Posts: 2144 Location: New Jersey

Les · Joined: 09 May 2001 Posts: 2682 Location: Detroit, MI

jpmose · Joined: 29 May 2001 Posts: 164 Location: Atlanta, GA

Well Les...now I have a different point of view! This is the first Rodenstock Optar that I have seen in a Graphex shutter. But it is interesting that it is a f/4.5, while lenses in the late Graflex literature are f/4.7. Who knows and what does it really matter. I just thought I'd add a little mystery to our lives!

Here is a table of Rodenstock serial numbers:

Rodenstock Serial Number by Date
50,000 1910
200,000 1920
400,000 1930
700,000 1935
900,000 1938
950,000 1940
2,000,000 1945
2,500,000 1952
3,000,000 1954
4,000,000 1957
5,000,000 1961
6,000,000 1966
7,000,000 1971
8,000,000 1973
9,000,000 1974
9,500,000 1977
10,000,000 1979
10,500,000 1984
11,000,000 1991
11,150,000 1993
11,231,713 1994
11,294,073 1995
11,358,165 1996
11,407,513 1997
11,468,541 1998

I have seen this same list in a few places. All my Rodenstock Optars are 469XXXX. Maybe they made a large run early one? Oh the joys of Graflex ownership.

jpmose · Joined: 29 May 2001 Posts: 164 Location: Atlanta, GA

Les...I didn't notice it at first, but the lens you posted has a shutter displaying the widest aperture at f/4.7, while the lens is a f/4.5. As you pointed out, a Rodenstock lens may have been transfered to the Graphex shutter.

Les · Joined: 09 May 2001 Posts: 2682 Location: Detroit, MI

So I have a lens board made before 1958, a lens made around 1958, in a shutter that was probably made before 1945, whose aperture scale doesn't match the lens..... hmmm sounds a bit dodgy to me.

(sorry, been reading too much Harry Potter)

So maybe Rodenstock DIDN"T supply lenses for anything except the 1000 shutter. Frankly it would make more sense to see a Roddy Optar in a Graphic marked Compur wouldn't it?

Oops there I go trying to interject logic into this again, sorry bout that.

Les · Joined: 09 May 2001 Posts: 2682 Location: Detroit, MI

I just recieved a an envelope containing a letter and a Singer catalog dated 1972. (Ironically in '72 it cost Singer 44 cents to mail it from Rochester to San Fran. It cost me $4.00 to mail it back to me.

the catalog is sadly thin, a trifold of 6 sides, only the Crown and the Super are mentioned, but the 135 Optar in a Graphex shutter was in the catalog.
there is also a letter from none other than Tim Holden explaining the GSA prices (the recipient was in the Service)

"Unfortunately the 135mm Optar lens is in very short supply and because of prior commitments, it does not appear likely we would be able to deliver until possible some time in September (this is July). We could make prompt deliver of the camera fitted with the 135 equally satisfactory lens f4.5, with Rodenstock Ysarex lens in #1 Compure shutter. This combination would be $378.01 ( a savings of 39.73 over the Optar)"

RKnoppow · Joined: 15 May 2002 Posts: 14 Location: Los Angeles

The Optar name belonged to Graflex and was used for lenses contracted by them from outside suppliers.
The first Optars were offered on the early Pacemaker series cameras as an alternative to Kodak lenses. They were made by Wollensak and are mostly of indifferent quality. However, the Optar on my Super D is excellent, so some must were good lenses.
Later, Graflex bought lenses from Rodenstock. These Optars are of first class quality.
I think all the Rodenstock Optars were used on Super Graphics.
Graflex also used some Schneider Xenar lenses. These appear on the Speed Graphic Special. The couple I looked at had the same problem that the Wollensak lenses did, namely excessive coma.