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RichS
Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1468
Location: South of Rochester, NY
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 Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2003 5:31 am Post subject: |
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What the heck, more questions 
First off, I'd like to state that I have made my last LF purchase! Or so I told my wife today Why am I telling anyone else this? Because I'd like to hear what others know about it, since I (as usual) know very little...
I bought a Turner & Reich convertible for my 8x10. It's a 12, 19 and 25 inch in a Betax #4; and oddly enough I forgot to find out what arpeture???
Why didn't I get opinions first? Well, I've done some reading, always dangerous. Some people hate these lenses, some love them. Many famous photos were taken with it (T&R in general, not this lens). It's a lens with history and opinions and I liked that. It's also supposed to be in mint condition, but we'll see about that. And it's got the 25" length I was looking for..
What I couldn't find was any real detailed info on the lens or manufacturer. So here I am...
Second, about such information; old lenses. Besides the very kind fountains of info available here and few other places, are there any books or available articles that detail old lenses? Not that I mind asking dumb questions now and then, but I would love to be able to take a book off a shelf and look these things up...
So, if anyone has anything good or bad to say about the lens, I would love to hear it. Any suggestions about encyclopedic books on the subject and I would be very happy, and I'd get the chance to buy yet something else
Thanks, as usual...
Rich...
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Dan Fromm
Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 2144
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2003 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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On 2003-02-20 21:31, RichS wrote:
What the heck, more questions
First off, I'd like to state that I have made my last LF purchase! Or so I told my wife today Why am I telling anyone else this? Because I'd like to hear what others know about it, since I (as usual) know very little...
I bought a Turner & Reich convertible for my 8x10. It's a 12, 19 and 25 inch in a Betax #4; and oddly enough I forgot to find out what arpeture???
Why didn't I get opinions first? Well, I've done some reading, always dangerous. Some people hate these lenses, some love them. Many famous photos were taken with it (T&R in general, not this lens). It's a lens with history and opinions and I liked that. It's also supposed to be in mint condition, but we'll see about that. And it's got the 25" length I was looking for..
What I couldn't find was any real detailed info on the lens or manufacturer. So here I am...
Second, about such information; old lenses. Besides the very kind fountains of info available here and few other places, are there any books or available articles that detail old lenses? Not that I mind asking dumb questions now and then, but I would love to be able to take a book off a shelf and look these things up...
So, if anyone has anything good or bad to say about the lens, I would love to hear it. Any suggestions about encyclopedic books on the subject and I would be very happy, and I'd get the chance to buy yet something else
Thanks, as usual...
Rich...
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Get a copy of the Lens Collectors' Vade Mecum. It is on CD, can be got, I think, from MW Photographic in the UK. You'll have to do a search for their URL.
The Vade Mecum is a useful resource, not perfect but very useful, with a strong UK and German bias. Not so great for US-made lenses. |
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RichS
Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1468
Location: South of Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2003 4:42 am Post subject: |
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On 2003-02-21 04:41, Dan Fromm wrote:
Get a copy of the Lens Collectors' Vade Mecum. It is on CD, can be got, I think, from MW Photographic in the UK. You'll have to do a search for their URL.
The Vade Mecum is a useful resource, not perfect but very useful, with a strong UK and German bias. Not so great for US-made lenses.
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Thank you! Although I have been absolutely unsuccesfull in trying to find the Vade Mecum (except for references to it), the search for it also brought up Wooden's "Large Format Optical Reference Manual" which I will probably order next week. And the search continues
Rich...
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Springback
Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 117
Location: Fresno, where the raisins come from!
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| Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2003 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| Try the Large Format forum at photo.net |
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RichS
Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1468
Location: South of Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2003 7:22 am Post subject: |
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On 2003-02-21 22:02, Springback wrote:
Try the Large Format forum at photo.net
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Thanks. I suppose I could try posting there? But searching there only brought up the references I mentioned. And, unfortunately, camerabooks.com which carries the LF Optical Ref Manual. And quite a few others which made me kinda sorry I stopped there... Until next week when I get to read them anyway
But I'll keep searching for the Vade Mecum. The biggest problem is getting side-tracked with all the other sites I find with these searches...
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Springback
Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 117
Location: Fresno, where the raisins come from!
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| Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2003 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| The Turner Reich triple convertable is respected lens---Ansel used one to take his photo of the Golden Gate before the bridge was built. As I understand it, there are three sets of scales on the shutter, each corresponding to a different combination of elements. These lenses were used with a yellow filter for reasons Ron Wisner describes on his website in his sales pitch for the Wisner "casket set" of lenses. I also believe that they'll shift focus on you as you stop down, so there is a need to recheck the focus before you shoot. This isn't personal experience, only what I've gleaned from when I was shopping for a lens for my 8x10. Have you tried looking the Archives at Large Format forum? I know that triple convertables are popular with backpackers. You might try e-mailing Jon at the F-stop. The people at Mid West Photo Exchange should also be able to tell you quite a bit about this lens, as would SK Grimes. Good luck! |
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RichS
Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1468
Location: South of Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2003 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for that info. I'll have to see if I have any reference to Ansel's work, but I was under the impression that he disliked the T&R and Weston liked it? Stuff for future readings...
I've heard about Wisner's lens. Apparently still made, and way beyond my budget...
Using the yellow filter is one of my advantages over many others. Since I shoot primarily B&W, I can use a monochromatic filter to improve the lens performance. Can't do that with color.
Focus shift is something I still have to check into with these lenses and is a concern. Although I do like to recheck the focus with all my lenses, I also don't always remember...
The popularity of convertibles is one of the things that draws me to them. Many people love them. Many people hate them. They seem very convenient when you start talking about 10 pound lenses and carrying 3 or 4 at a time. When I was young, I was very concerned about sharpness and 'good' lenses. That was also with 35mm. Now I'm not so picky and I tend to appreciate the history, oddity and controversy of equipment more than minute exactness. Not to mention having a slightly harder time now seeing that sharpness
I wouldn't bother Jon or Steve for an opinion of something I already bought, and not from them. Just seems like it wouldn't be nice. I just bring things like this up here to start a little conversation and minor 'brain picking'. And I have to say I'm a bit suprised that nobody has expressed an opinion of the T&R. I hope it's not because they're afraid of saying something bad about it? I didn't buy it because it's supposed to be a 'good' lens after all... Or maybe noone here has any experience with them?
Rich...
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Dan Fromm
Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 2144
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2003 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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On 2003-02-22 09:31, RichS wrote:
Thanks for that info. I'll have to see if I have any reference to Ansel's work, but I was under the impression that he disliked the T&R and Weston liked it? Stuff for future readings...
I've heard about Wisner's lens. Apparently still made, and way beyond my budget...
Using the yellow filter is one of my advantages over many others. Since I shoot primarily B&W, I can use a monochromatic filter to improve the lens performance. Can't do that with color.
Focus shift is something I still have to check into with these lenses and is a concern. Although I do like to recheck the focus with all my lenses, I also don't always remember...
The popularity of convertibles is one of the things that draws me to them. Many people love them. Many people hate them. They seem very convenient when you start talking about 10 pound lenses and carrying 3 or 4 at a time. When I was young, I was very concerned about sharpness and 'good' lenses. That was also with 35mm. Now I'm not so picky and I tend to appreciate the history, oddity and controversy of equipment more than minute exactness. Not to mention having a slightly harder time now seeing that sharpness
I wouldn't bother Jon or Steve for an opinion of something I already bought, and not from them. Just seems like it wouldn't be nice. I just bring things like this up here to start a little conversation and minor 'brain picking'. And I have to say I'm a bit suprised that nobody has expressed an opinion of the T&R. I hope it's not because they're afraid of saying something bad about it? I didn't buy it because it's supposed to be a 'good' lens after all... Or maybe noone here has any experience with them?
Rich...
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The book, as per Richard Knoppow in many posts on usenet's rec.photo.equipment.large-format, on T-R convertibles is that because of complexities of construction the elements are usually poorly centered. They are more or less symmetrical, each cell consists of three elements cemented into one lump. The practical implication is that if you want one, fine, but you should get it with the right of return and test on arrival.
Cheers,
Dan |
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RichS
Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1468
Location: South of Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2003 3:20 am Post subject: |
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On 2003-02-22 10:28, Dan Fromm wrote:
The book, as per Richard Knoppow in many posts on usenet's rec.photo.equipment.large-format, on T-R convertibles is that because of complexities of construction the elements are usually poorly centered. They are more or less symmetrical, each cell consists of three elements cemented into one lump. The practical implication is that if you want one, fine, but you should get it with the right of return and test on arrival.
Cheers,
Dan
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Yes, I've heard mentionings of this problem. Of course the larger problem will be: will I notice if the lens is out or not?
Yes, I could return it if I want. I bought this one from a legit store, not an auction. There's still the collector's value to me. And there doesn't seem to be all that many around to choose from in this category. So as long as it's useable, to my personal satisfaction of course, there's a lot more reasons to keep it than return it. And oddly enough, I'm not really looking for that exacting sharpness from the 8x10. I probably would have been better off buying an old portrait lens for what I want. But I didn't see one that's both convertable and conversational as the T&R. And there's always the hope that I get one that just happened to be put together correctly. Then it has a certain gloating factor If not, then I'll be in the same boat as most and probably still happy with it...
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Springback
Joined: 30 Jul 2002
Posts: 117
Location: Fresno, where the raisins come from!
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| Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2003 2:47 am Post subject: |
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| Hey, just figure out what aperture scale you need to use with your combination and go and have fun! Good Light! |
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RichS
Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1468
Location: South of Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2003 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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On 2003-02-23 18:47, Springback wrote:
Hey, just figure out what aperture scale you need to use with your combination and go and have fun! Good Light!
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My plans exactly, thank you!
And the lens did arrive yesterday (the T&R). Took me a half hour to cut the hole and mount it. Never can find tiny screws when I need them... Had to put the flange on the outside of the 4x4 GVII lensboard. Wouldn't fit inside. But it does clear the locks and now can be used on both my GVII and B&J.
And what a nice, and hefty lens! I am a little miffed at the store. It turns out not to be a 25", but a 23.6". Well, close enough. Not exactly mint either, but they didn't actually use that term... And it is a bit old... But the glass is beautiful, everything works, and it was made right up here in Fairport (not far from where I live).
Odd though, the sutter worked perfectly when it arrived, frozen. After it warmed up, wouldn't work at all... A quick blow of graphite and 20 or so clicks and it was right on speed...
Took a test shot with it today at 12" and finally got to experience 8x10 Polaroid. Then again, this was the first experience at all with 8x10... What fun! I had so much fun, that I fogot to open the window I was shooting through! Pic came out fine anyway. And lens works great. And what coverage! It's deffinitely sharp enough for me, so I am very happy with it.
I also took a shot with the Meyer at 15cm. I just had to see what it would look like with the 10" circle. Or 9 inch. I can measure it now Very interesting photo. Even though it doesn't cover the 8x10, it would has use, and it could always be trimmed...
Now if we only had some decent weather....
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RichS
Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1468
Location: South of Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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On 2003-02-21 04:41, Dan Fromm wrote:
Get a copy of the Lens Collectors' Vade Mecum. It is on CD, can be got, I think, from MW Photographic in the UK. You'll have to do a search for their URL.
The Vade Mecum is a useful resource, not perfect but very useful, with a strong UK and German bias. Not so great for US-made lenses.
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Whew, there was a lot of twisting & turning searching that finally ended with "MW Classic Cameras" in the UK, found at:
http://www.mwclassic.com/acatalog/index.html
at the bottom of the page...
So the illusive Vade Mecum has been found, and will now be ordered
Thanks!
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pwilli
Joined: 01 Mar 2003
Posts: 1
Location: Southern NY
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2003 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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On 2003-02-21 20:42, RichS wrote:
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On 2003-02-21 04:41, Dan Fromm wrote:
Get a copy of the Lens Collectors' Vade Mecum. It is on CD, can be got, I think, from MW Photographic in the UK. You'll have to do a search for their URL.
The Vade Mecum is a useful resource, not perfect but very useful, with a strong UK and German bias. Not so great for US-made lenses.
|
Thank you! Although I have been absolutely unsuccesfull in trying to find the Vade Mecum (except for references to it), the search for it also brought up Wooden's "Large Format Optical Reference Manual" which I will probably order next week. And the search continues
Rich...
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Dan Fromm
Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 2144
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2003 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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On 2003-03-01 05:12, pwilli wrote:
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On 2003-02-21 20:42, RichS wrote:
| Quote: |
On 2003-02-21 04:41, Dan Fromm wrote:
Get a copy of the Lens Collectors' Vade Mecum. It is on CD, can be got, I think, from MW Photographic in the UK. You'll have to do a search for their URL.
The Vade Mecum is a useful resource, not perfect but very useful, with a strong UK and German bias. Not so great for US-made lenses.
|
Thank you! Although I have been absolutely unsuccesfull in trying to find the Vade Mecum (except for references to it), the search for it also brought up Wooden's "Large Format Optical Reference Manual" which I will probably order next week. And the search continues
Rich...
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go to http://www.mwclassic.com/acatalog/MW_Classic_Cameras_VADEMECUM_CD_ROM_122.html#a18931 |
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RichS
Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1468
Location: South of Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 3:26 am Post subject: |
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On 2003-02-21 20:42, RichS wrote:
Thank you! Although I have been absolutely unsuccesfull in trying to find the Vade Mecum (except for references to it), the search for it also brought up Wooden's "Large Format Optical Reference Manual" which I will probably order next week. And the search continues
Rich...
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I think I messed up the 'quotes" here...
Anyway, Yes I found the web site and have tried ordering from it many times. Always get a script error from their server. They have yet to answer my e-mails...
On the brite side, I got the "LF Optical Reference Manual" in the mail today. I still don't know a tessar from a protar, but at least I can look them up and see what they cover along with other details. Great reference book for old lenses!
I'll still work on the VM...
Thanks...
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