Graflex.org

[JohnGill]

Going to a camera show to look over a Crown Graphic tomorrow. I want to do landscapes but
I'm always hearing about this cameras lack of
movements. Just how will this be a disadvantage to shooting landscapes ? Do I really want some other tool ?
Best,
John

[JohnGill]

I know my question is not very advanced but I'm puzzled. Is there some limitation of what can be done with a Crown Graphic and it's limited movements as it applies to shooting landscapes ? I hear so much about "movements" but no one will say just how this applies in practice.
What can I not do with this CG that can be done with say a regular view camera ?
Best,
John

[RichS]

Well I'm certainly not one of the experienced people who could truly answer your question, but since no one else has yet, I'll throw in some things...

First thing to remember is that there are "movement purists" out there who think you have to have the full range of movements to accomplish anything. Movements are useful, sometimes necessary but not always. ANd there are ways to have the Crown do movements it "doesn't have" such as forward tilt.

I don't know how much you know about view cameras and movements? If 'nothing' as when I started, then I'd suggest reading a book or two to find out what the movements accomplish. I never found any books that deal with movements and landscapes. I wonder why? Two good books I'd recommend are "Using the View Camera" by Simmons and "View Camera Technique" by Stroebel.
I enjoy lanscapes too but the only movement I've found overly useful is tilt. With a view camera, you could tilt the back or front for perspective control and to increase the focus range from a near foreground to infinity. With a Crown, you canm tilt the whole camera down and then tilt back the lens to accomplish the same thing. Or drop the front bed and raise the lens.
Front rise also comes in handy.
The only thing really missing is swing. Could be useful but I haven't needed it yet in landscapes. But I'm not that advanced either... And what a Crown has beats the heck out of a 35mm
All this could be refined, and deffinitely explained better from someone who does more advanced work with Views and lanscapes, but it's a start I suppose?

Rich...

[JohnGill]

Rich thanks for the reply. No, I'm not an advanced user at all. Just want to have some fun shooting landscapes with a 4x5 camera I don't need to take out a loan on.
I guess what I want is what you're already doing and I'm releaved to hear you're not too advanced either.
I'll learn as I go along, and make mistakes too. So the Crown will allow me to do landscapes with out being an expert or asking the correct questions ! It's funny but I have used a mono rail setup but it's been over 25 years ago. Thanks for taking the time Rich.
Best,
John

[cavphotog]

Just be aware that the standard lens doesn't really give adequate coverage when using movements. A 150+ mm lens would work better. Kodak has an excellent publication on using press and view cameras.

[Les]

Lens tilt and swing effect what's in focus and depth of field. For instance you set the camera up so it's level focus on a field of daisies and at wide open you'll have a few feet of them in focus at one time. By dropping the bed, then raising the front (back to normal) you'll find you can get all of the flowers in focus, but not the grass a foot below.

Now while your fiddling with drop beds and such, I've come up, focused, stopped down to f22, got the whole dang field in focus, shot and been on my way to the next shot. I"ve found rise to be more important than tilt, and the Crown has enough to suit most landscape people.

I use rise to add blue sky and get rid of foreground uglyness most of the time.

If there is a major problem with the Crown it's shooting veritcals. Rise almost dissappears, because in Horizonal mode, there is a little shift, but that becomes your rise, in vertical mode.

[JohnGill]

Les,
Exactly what I didn't know how to express!
When I used 35mm gear I just stopped down in
creasing DOF,shoot and move on. So this tech
nique also works with the 4x5 Crown Graphic ?
If I can do that and get a sharp photo front
to rear (like 35mm),fine ,that's what I'm after. Sound about right ?
Best,
John

[RichS]

Well, if you're just looking to have some fun with 4x5, then a Crown is the way to go (in my opinion anyway). You can just shoot it like a manual 35mm, but bigger, and completely forget about movements. But without a decent meter, you may still have to ask about exposure
As usual, Les made some great points. I forgot about vertical shots. The one thing I hate about the Crown/Speed and love about the View. And using rise to get rid of foreground junk to get in some sky is something I never really thought of! But like a 35mm, you could just point the camera a little higher and not worry...
One thing to keep in mind though is depth of field (half of this discussion). If you've used longer lenses on your 35, you will know what to expect. A 250mm on a 35 will have very little depth of field compared to a standard 50mm. A 150 will be slightly less. But a 150 is the standard lens on a 4x5! It's coverage is relativley the same as the 50 on a 35mm but will have the limited DOF of the same 150 on your 35mm. This is sounding more complex than I thought... But stopping down the standard 150mm on a 4x5 to f22 will not have the same DOF as a 50mm on a 35 stopped down to f22. It will have a similar DOF as a 150mm on a 35mm. So no matter what lens you put on a 4x5, it will have less DOF than you're used to on a 35mm camera. Most of the time it doesn't make any difference, but like Les' example, somtimes it does. That's when tilt comes in handy. I usually only use tilt when doing close-ups (or fields of flowers ) though as there it really makes a big difference...
Anyway, now that I've just confused things a whole lot more... My suggestion is to get the Crown, and a Polaroid holder, and PLAY! Then ask more questions if you want, and get a few lenses and other neat stuff, join the crowd and let us in on all your goofs, cause we all made good ones. Like who hasn't forgotten about the dark slide, in or out? Or left the lens open after focusing?
Rich...

[JohnGill]

Thanks RichS,
After reading "The Camera" by Adams I was totally confused. Your discription of dof makes perfect sense and without the diagrams!
Thanks all,I can get my Crown and start learning.
Best,
John

[Nick]

There is some sort of rule that equates DOF on 35mm to 4x5. I think it's 4 stops but I'm likely wrong-) So basically if you'd use F/8 with a 35mm you'll need f/32 to get the same sort of DOF on a 4x5.

I've got a view and a calumet with even more movements and I'm not sure how much movements I really use. Front rise/fall is real nice. Other then that?

You might find times you want the added movements. The problem is you need to carry them around all the time use them or not.