Graflex.org

[vnmunhoz]

Hi guys,

im brand new to the forum and to 4x5 photography. I have had my eyes on a 4x5 Graflex Super Speed Graphic and from all the info I've collected online, its a great camera. My uses for it would be sports and studio, and thats why the Super Speed attracted me so much, with its 1/1000th shutter.

The thing is, however, that Ive heard from more than one person that the 1/1000th shutter is a myth and it really doesnt work, aside from being much more expensive than simply getting a Super Graphic.

My questions are

what is the problem with the 1/1000th shutter? I thought that although the camera had a focal plane shutter that you could still trigger it as a leaf shutter just like any other 4x5 lens.

People told me ths shutter doesnt work, but does that mean I doesnt work at 1/1000th or it doesnt work at all? cause if it still works at 1/500th or 1/750th, it would still be a great advantage to have it.

anyway, if anyone can help clarify this for me I'd be very grateful!


thanks!

[45PSS]

The Super and Super Speed Graphics are aluminum body press cameras. The difference between the Super and the Super Speed graphic is the label on the camera body. The Super Speed Graphic came from the factory with the Graphic 1000 speed shutter. Neither of the Super series have a focal plane shutter. The Graphic 1000 speed shutter was used on one model of Speed Graphic which has a focal plane shutter.
The Super Graphics have more front standard movements than the Crown or Speed Graphics.

Standard leaf shutters leaves pivot on a pin or shaft and are spring loaded or spring operated with timing gears to slow or delay their closing. They snap open, are delayed by the timing gear train then snap closed.
The graphic 1000 speed shutter leaves are driven by nylon geared eccentrics. The eccentric gears strip easily. If there is any drag or jamming of the drive train the eccentric gears strip.
In standard leaf shutters the shutter slows down when it needs servicing. The Graphic 1000 speed shutter cocking mechanism requires more pressure to cock the shutter when it needs servicing. If the leaves hit each other while operating it strips an eccentric gear.

I have successfully Cleaned and lubed several Graphic 1000 speed shutters and they work fine at all speeds. Most photographers are not familiar with the shutter and therefore do not recognize it needs servicing and continue to use it until total failure.

Discussion on Crown/Speed with the Graphic 1000 speed shutter:
http://graflex.org/helpboard/viewtopic.php?t=4393&highlight=model
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The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.

[vnmunhoz]

thanks for the advice. I think im gonna go with the super graphic and just hunt down a lens that can reach 1/1000th shutter speed. i figure thats my best bet since its really hard finding a super speed graphic and the super graphic is the same camera just cheaper.

i just wonder how easy it is to find a lens that can reach 1/1000th shutter speed.

also, how much heavier and bigger is a speed graphic compared to the super? That was a selling point for me when i heard they were lighter and smaller, but now im reconsidering since the speed graphic has a focal plane shutter (also, I dont know how much of a plus it is to have a focal plane shutter or not, but ive heard good things)

thanks again!

[Les]

While the same caveats 45PSS mention hold true, I will add that there were two versions of the Graflex 1000 shutter and both will fit a Pacemaker Crown /Speed.

The difference in the two is the flash sync connections. The shutter for the Super Speed has internal contacts that fit with the internal wiring of a Super Graphic.

A second version was made for the Pacemaker line that has three brass connectors on the face of the lensboard. They look like bi-post pins and you use the top two for X sync and the bottom two (center common) for flash sync (or was it vice versa?)

The Graflex 1000 shutter is the only shutter I know of that has the capability of 1/1000th of a second shutter, Kodak made a Syncho 800 that was capable of 1/800th of a second, but I usually see those in smaller shutters for 2x3 cameras.
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"In order to invent, you need a good imagination and a lot of junk" Thomas Edison

[graphicdave]

Les,

I have a Graflex 1000 shutter on a board that was intended for the Super Speed but it won't fit on my Pacemaker top rangefinder speed. How can I use it on this camera? Do I put it on a different board?

Dave

[Les]

Really?, What gets in the way?
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"In order to invent, you need a good imagination and a lot of junk" Thomas Edison

[vnmunhoz]

Does anyone know if there is a big difference in size and weight between the Speed Graphic and the Super Graphic?

Also, for high speed flash sync, is it better to have a focal plane shutter like the speed or would that system that Les explained for the Super work fine?

thanks guys!

[graphicdave]

Les,

I'm at work right now, I'll check when I get home. Didn't spend a lot of time checking it out so I'm not sure what the problem was. I remember removing the regular lensboard/shutter and trying the 1000 and it wouldn't seat properly. I'll try again this evening and let you know.

D.

[Les]

Flash sync, at least for Graflex Focal Plane shutter is next to impossible. 35mm cameras have for years completely opened the aperture, then closed it. At higher speeds the second curtain starts when the first curtain is halfway. Until the 80s, the fastest speed the FP shutter that was wide open was 1/60th. Later it got as high as 1/250.

The Graflex FP shutter, being a single curtain, doesn't have a 'wide open' section except for "T" for time, which is hardly "high speed"

So 'HIgh speed flash photography' can't really be done with a Speed Graphic FP shutter.

Pacemaker Speed with Kalart RF Ysarex lens: 5# 14oz
Super Graphic with same lens: 5# 14oz.

I doubt the top RF on a Pacemaker Speed will vary the weight by more than an oz or two.

Les
_________________
"In order to invent, you need a good imagination and a lot of junk" Thomas Edison

[vnmunhoz]

Thanks guys. I think im gonna go with the Super Graphic and hope to find a 1000 shutter in good conditions on the way.

45PSS, how do you go about in maintaining a Graphic 1000 speed shutter? Just asking in case I find one in the near future.

Thanks.

[45PSS]

The lens shade/filter retainer is the shutter cocking meachism. Turning it clockwise until it stops cocks the shutter, approximately 270 degrees of rotation. The turning force should be 1 to 4 ounces of pressure and the movement should be smooth throughout. Rough movement or more pressure to turn indicates the shutter needs to be disassembled, cleaned, lubed, and reassembled. Once cleaned and lubed just use it as you would any other shutter until it becomes rough or harder to cock then disassemble and clean. If you find a shutter with a leaf out of position get it for parts.
http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/graflex_12.html has a few pages on operation of the 1000 speed shutter.
http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/graflex_6.html covers the Super Graphic Camera, not the 1000 speed shutter.
I purchased a copy of the 1000 speed shutter service manual from http://www.craigcamera.com/ and worked thru the procedure and discovered my shutter was two to three times easier to operate after the CLA. I have purchased and sold 3 additional Super Speeds after reconditioning them. Supers go for $300 to $400 in usable condition, and about $200 to $300 for complete needing Clean and Lube.
_________________
The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.

[vnmunhoz]

I found a super speed with a 1000 shutter for $550 and the seller claims its in excellent conditions, but still I think its a bit too much for it, specially since i found a super graphic for $300. do you think its a fair price?

[graphicdave]

Les,

The problems with my copy of the Graflex 1000 shutter/lensboard fitting the Pacemaker are;

1. Three of the five screws on the back of the lensboard bottom-out on the recess in the Pacemaker front standard. I removed these screws and it looks like it wants to fit but then the shutter trip mechanism for the Super Speed hits the light trap rim.

2. The raised nubs for the slide locks are 90 degrees out on the 1000 board. If I turn it to match up with the Pacemaker the long side of the board prevents it from fitting correctly.

If I wanted to use this lens/shutter on a Pacemaker, can the shutter be removed easily from the Super lensboard?

D.

[45PSS]

Cosmedically perfect, battery door present, all electronics work properly, 1000 speed shutter works properly, rangefinder cam matches lens and rangefinder works properly, rf image and groundglass agree on sharp focus, all movements smooth, yea worth $500+.
_________________
The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.

[markcasias]

hi 45PSS! where can we buy that i am interested with it......

mark
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