Graflex.org

RichS · Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:28 am Post subject:

Just a curiosity that maybe someone can clear up?

I just got a focus panel for a 4x5 Super graphic 'parts camera' (they never seem to be left as parts cameras). It needs a bit more work, but I noticed something odd about the panel.

If you think of any focus panel for any of the Graphics, Super or not, they have two "ears" where you slide the film holder in. That's normal, even on my good Super. Now this panel, which is normal in every other way, has no 'ears'. It's a straight edge all the way across where the holder inserts. Deffinitely made that way and doesn't look like it's ever been modified in any way.

Anyone know why a focus panel might be made like this? Or was this 'normal' in itself at some point in production? I've never seen a pic of a Graphic without the ears... maybe just another Graflex oddity?

Thanks for any insights...

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RichS · Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 4:09 am Post subject:

"Never mind"

After posting that, I've seen several Supers with the same focus panel...

From the looks of the cameras, I can surmise that this panel was the older design for the Super, replaced by the standard 'ear' type later on as all the cameras with the straight edge were deffinitely older model Supers...

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"Ya just can't have too many GVIIs"

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Les · Joined: 09 May 2001 Posts: 2682 Location: Detroit, MI

Nice catch Rich!

I hadn't noticed that. While you say there aren't any ears, it looks to me like the earlier version had the extended portion as a solid line. Like having the ears filled in, rather than missing.

Damn. Another chapter to rewrite!

Les

RichS · Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:00 am Post subject:

Les,

Want to hear the icing on the embarrasment cake?

I just got home from a weekend out, shooting my grab 'n go Super kit. I get there, pull the camera out of the bag and the first thing I notice is the focus panel has no ears

I had one here on my own camera all the time and just never noticed it....

Yes, you're right. The 'ears' simply do not end and form an 'ear'. The metal goes straight across to the other (in)side.

My first worry was along the lines that a 545 holder may not work correctly, but I've shot this camera using one. For some odd reason, I just never noticed the difference in the panel until I got a second one. Apparently no where's near as odd or rarety as I originally thought...

RichS · Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:09 am Post subject:

And now to cap it all off...

I started repairing my 'parts' Super that started this whole thing. Needed a rangefinder repair so I pulled out the repair manual. Looking through the pages, I noticed that all the pics of the focus panel are the one with the straight edge... And I never noticed this before?

I couldn't find a date on the manual but it's from the General Precision time period and makes note of the model change from serial # 646124. So either the straight edge was actually the later model or they never changed the photos? All the other info is updated for the newer models though.

I'll leave it to you to find out which is which time period wise

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"Ya just can't have too many GVIIs"

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Les · Joined: 09 May 2001 Posts: 2682 Location: Detroit, MI

So the manual does say something about the change?

I noticed that the 'New" back has ears but also has a rib next to the release bars, I assume so that you won't accidently release the back by bumping the camera on your suit or something.

In looking at my Graflex Notes (the internal dealer magazine) I couldn't find anything conclusive. I suspected the change came with the intro of the Graflex 1000 lens, but couldn't prove it.

This just in.... ebay auction http://cgi.ebay.com/CLEAN-GRAFLEX-SUPER-SPEED-GRAPHIC-NO-RESERVE-LOOK_W0QQitemZ7627138294QQihZ017QQcategoryZ15247QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

has serial number 646,7xx and still has the bar, so Graflex is consistantly inconsistant.

[ This Message was edited by: Les on 2006-06-27 07:04 ]

RichS · Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:56 am Post subject:

The repair manual describes differences in the camera (minor body and rangefinder) and electronics (wiring and RF board), but no mention of the panel. All it shows is the one with the straight edge, like the other never existed. Maybe the one with 'ears' is the rarity after all?

And to add to this, I've now noticed that some of the backs have what look like 'buttons' next to the release bars? (as in the link you provided) I have ribs on mine, both old and new.

And the original reason I thought the straight panel was older is because it's black. I thought the Super went more grey in the newer model and my panel with ears is the same grey as the Super...

Will anyone ever know the things Graflex has done???

Les · Joined: 09 May 2001 Posts: 2682 Location: Detroit, MI

Well no, we will never find out about all of the little things that went on. Tim Holden told me they changed ground glass suppliers several times during the Anniversary years. In any case here are some of his notes on the Super. I suspect the bar to ear changed in 1961 as he calls it a "cut out for the rangefinder"

[ This Message was edited by: Les on 2006-06-28 03:07 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Les on 2006-06-28 03:08 ]

RichS · Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:09 am Post subject:

Wow, thanks Les. That's one nice sheet of paper

That's really a lot of the fun of Graflex is trying to figure out and keep up with the changes they made. So now I know the ears are newer. It is funny that they designed the camera with a back that prvented the RF use when in vertical mode considering the big advancement was the rotating back

But once a film holder is inserted, it doesn't make any difference if it has ears or not... And oddly enough, I've never used the back rotated when hand held. It's just easier to rotate the whole camera.

Now what will be the next big question?

RichS · Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:11 am Post subject:

Wow, thanks Les. That's one nice sheet of paper

That's really a lot of the fun of Graflex is trying to figure out and keep up with the changes they made. So now I know the ears are newer. It is funny that they designed the camera with a back that prvented the RF use when in vertical mode considering the big advancement was the rotating back

But once a film holder is inserted, it doesn't make any difference if it has ears or not... And oddly enough, I've never used the back rotated when hand held. It's just easier to rotate the whole camera.

Now what will be the next big question?

Les · Joined: 09 May 2001 Posts: 2682 Location: Detroit, MI

I find it kind of odd that in '61 they put the "notch for rangefinder use" or in our terms, but ears back on, but it's a moot point because with or without the notch, the film holder will cover up the RF! Best to rotate it to the down postion and put the film in from the bottom, then you can use it like a,,,what's those minature cameras called.... Oh a Leica!

Les

RichS · Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:17 am Post subject:

I would love to know the details of why it was designed that way in the first place? Who could have stood there and said "I think we should leave it straight across because..."? Maybe they were just upholding their reputation?

Since I like the Super for hand-held use, I've never really rotated the back anyway. It's much more convenient to rotate the entire camera like any other rangefinder camera. But I do remember the questioning thoughts that ran through my head the first time I had it on a tripod for a vertical shot

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"Ya just can't have too many GVIIs"

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45PSS · Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:29 am Post subject:

So that with camera in one hand and a film holder in the other one could just catch the edge of the focus panel with the end of the film holder and insert it without looking, with the "ears" one must locate the "ear" to start the process.

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RichS · Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:58 am Post subject:

Very astute and quite right. Sitting here with camera in-hand, I can see how the straight design would allow much faster operation with film holders. Sometimes the obvious is simply to close to be observed...

To ad to that along the lines above. I'm now also thinking that for hand-held use, loading a film holder from the bottom would also be much easier if one needed a vertical shot. The camera would barely have to be removed from eye level to change holders. Changing a holder from the top is reletively very difficult especially if you wear a hat

Maybe now we can realize the Graflex design thinking?

45PSS · Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:15 am Post subject:

And if these were cutting edge of today I would be ridiculed for giving the secret away.

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The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.