Graflex.org

alski2005 · Joined: 25 Dec 2005 Posts: 12 Location: London, UK

Hi everyone,

My Crown Graphic should be arriving from the US in 4-10 days. I can't wait! It's in pretty good condition. But... there's always a but...

It's missing the Fresnel Lens. The seller told me it has a new Ground Glass in it. But i think i'd read a post here that the Ground Glass has circular grooves radiating from the centre to fit into the Fresnel Lens. I'm also quite concerned about the film plane and where it will be in relation to where it should be.

Can anyone please suggest what i should do about this? Can i buy a Fresnel Lens with a Ground Glass for it? I guess it wouldn't matter if i use the Ground Glass to focus all the time, or can i adjust the Range Finder to suit? As i'd like to be able to shoot it handheld.

I'm gutted about this. Obviously i wouldn't have bid for it had i known it didn't come with the Fresnel. Ho hum. It'll just be cool to get my own 5x4 Field Camera.

Thanking you in-advance,

Alex

bertsaunders · Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:40 am Post subject:

Alex,
The frensil is the one with the circular grooves, the GG has either a sand blasted type finish or is acid etched! The frensil is added to brighten the view 1 or 2 stops (in most cases)! The GG in most situations will work nicely under daylight conditions!
Frensils are hard to find and expensive, and seldom sold as a seperate item! Suggest you use the camera as is for a while, and of coarse adjust the RF to suit the lens! In most cases the RF will be set up already, you can check with targets set up at 2 or 3 distances....check RF and verify with GG for focus...a loupe is very usefull for accuracy! If you decide you do want a frensil, quite often full Graflokk backs are up for auction but quite expensive most of the time! Email me at bsaunders1@bak.rr.com
I have a mate that lives near London, I will give you his email address, he is very active with his Crown Graphic, and may have a lead on what choices you have in the UK!
Have a nice day..........Bert

Dan Fromm · Joined: 14 May 2001 Posts: 2144 Location: New Jersey

Rangemaster · Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:12 am Post subject:

Bert,

As the number 1 seller of ground glass in the world currently, I can atest to the fact that they are not alway sandblasted or acid etched.

Many crowns were made with out the fresnel, in fact I currently own 5 that never had a fresnel installed in them at all, and I own 4 that did, so the fresnel was not always there.

Ground glass does not have concentric circles to fit the circles of the fresnel, the circles of the fresnel are actually part of the len aspect of the fresnel, the fresnel is installed to increase light transmission in certain situations and is not always a benefit, depending on what type of shooting you do.

There are actually quite a few companies around that sell fresnels for very reasonable prices, they are not difficult to find and are considered a very cheap lens for magnification purposes, in fact Office Max, Office Depot and Staples all offer fresnel lenses for full page magnafication for about $8-$9 that can be cut down to replace or supliment your screen if need be.

Again, make sure the crown your getting was actually a crown with a fresnel before you panic, and even if it was not, don't panic, even if you have a model that had the fresnel, it is easy to shim the ground glass approx 2/3rds of the thickness of the fresnel to maintain proper focus plane on the glass.

If you have any questions, please feel free to drop me a note.

Dave Parker
Satin Snow Ground Glass
Focus on the picture, Not on the glass
http://www.satinsnowglass.com

Henry · Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:33 pm Post subject:

I tried a couple of those enlarging fresnels from the office store, and found them to be rather coarse and intrusive when focusing on the gg with loupe. I finally bought a proper one from Robert Pins in NJ (there's a website: see Google); it's a Kodak Ektalite screen, which has much finer circles although they are still visible through the loupe. I was able to install it in my Century's gg focusing frame, which has four cut-outs in the corners. I carefully trimmed each edge of the fresnel (it's some kind of plastic), leaving a projecting tab of material at each corner. These fit into the cut-outs in the frame, holding the screen in place behind the gg (i.e., when viewed from the back of the camera). The gg remains in its original postion, so there is no need for alteration of the frame, shims, etc., and no effect on the focus at the film plane. Don't know if such an installation would be possible on the 4x5; it all depends on whether the gg focusing frame has those cut-outs.

BTW, I use Dave's ground glass and it is super! Also very affordable!

[ This Message was edited by: Henry on 2006-01-13 09:38 ]

glennfromwy · Joined: 29 Nov 2001 Posts: 903 Location: S.W. Wyoming

They did not always come with a fresnel. If you have one that was not equipped, I wouldn't worry about it. I find them to be of little useful value and to me they are nothing more than distracting. You should easily be able to tell if yours ever had one. If it did and it's gone, there should be home brew shims under/over the ground glass to take up the space, or the glass would be rattling around loose. If the glass sits on the supporting bosses and the retainer clips hold it snug, it never had one. Want a brighter, finer glass? Get one of Dave's Satin Snow screens.

_________________
Glenn

"Wyoming - Where everybody is somebody else's weirdo"

bertsaunders · Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:11 pm Post subject:

I am fully aware of the cheepie frensils that are avail, dont waste your money on them, even knowing the thickness of the original frensil, and shimming them at the correct offset, is a waste of time! And I am also aware that many cameras were not supplied with frensils, and some backs were not milled to recieve them, (I have many examples, >independent backs< 8 with and 7 without!) All of my working Graphic cameras
have frensils! But even >Daves GG< has a "sand blasted >type< finish or is acid etched" (maybe I should have added >type< here too)...and even if I am not articulate enough on occassion when expressing an opinion, I >highly >recommend Daves product!
Even after 25 years of collecting and repairing these Graphic and Graflex cameras for myself and others, I find that I dont have all of the answers to all of the questions, and have to look at an example in my collection to find the answers on occassion!
I lost count at 55 cameras, and only reciently found the time to work on my own collection! Just going thru the accessories that I have, has taken 2 full days to list them..lenses/backs/viewfinders ect., and I havent finished yet! I have revised my working camera list 4 or 5 times, and still cannot say how many I have for sure..32 I think??
One closet full of cameras, one closit full of boxes of cameras needing attention, and parts, floor to ceiling and some in cubby holes around the room...had to close my bank account in order to stop resist buying more...
either the cameras go or the wife of 52 years......hmmmmmmmm...tough choice..haha
Have a nice day......Bert
By the way....no offence taken...EVER!!

[ This Message was edited by: bertsaunders on 2006-01-13 15:20 ]

[ This Message was edited by: bertsaunders on 2006-01-13 15:24 ]

[ This Message was edited by: bertsaunders on 2006-01-13 15:29 ]

RichS · Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:04 am Post subject:

Thought it was worth the mention.

In the new View Camera magazine, the ad for Midwest in the Graflex section lists new freznels for the Graphic cameras for 69 bucks. A bit high I think? But if you need one, they may actually have it. It's not listed on their web site...

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"Ya just can't have too many GVIIs"

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alski2005 · Joined: 25 Dec 2005 Posts: 12 Location: London, UK

Hi everyone,

Wow! Thanks to all of you for taking the time to post back.

My Crown still hasn’t arrived yet. Hmmm… I hope it arrives soon, and in one piece… else I’ll be after more than the Fresnel Lens! (hopefully not)

Bert- I’ve PMd you. It’d be great if you could put me in touch with your friend. Maybe after I’ve got my Crown and can confirm whether it’s missing one or not. Thanks.

Dan – I’ll be sure to have a good look as soon as it gets here. Maybe if there’s enough space I can borrow a Micrometer from the Engineering workshop at work and measure it up. At the moment I’m not screaming too loud. But perhaps if I’m having focussing issues then maybe I can jump up and down and scream. And maybe you could open up yours and let me know the dimensions inside? Thanks.

Rangemaster – Mr Satin Snow! I’d contacted the seller and he told me that a Satin Snow GG had been installed. It’s meant to be beautiful to look through. I was reading reviews on the web and your GGs are considered very very good. Even the guy in the LCS knew about them. I’ll be sure to check to see if it ever had a Fresnel Lens in it. It’s a late model Crown with a Top Rangefinder, do you know if the later models came without Fresnel Lenses? I’ll have a session checking Focussing and if it’s ok, will contact you for some help. Thanks.

Henry & GlennFromWy – I’ll be sure to have a look at the clips and ways the Fresnel L is secured in the Crown.

RichS – Will do a bit of digging and try and get a phone number for Midwest and try them. $69 sounds quite reasonable, especially with the P&P of having it sent over. I found a guy with a few Graflex spares and they were so expensive!

The plan is once I get my Crown, is to check everything works. Try focus tests and then go from there. I’ve got a decent Loupe and will be checking focus on the Satin Snow screen. And whilst I’m at it, I’ll reset the Rangefinder to the lens.

Thanks again,

Alex

p.s. it’s great getting advice from you guys!

fotofundi · Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 2 Location: Europe

I too recently purchased a Century Graphic. It came with three roll film holders, two Schneider lenses, but no fresnel screen. Being unsure if it was originally equiped with the fresenel screen I set the camera up on a sturdy tripod and focused very carefully on infinity by means of the GG screen and an 8x lupe. I then removed the focusing back and undid the screws holding the GG in place and removed the GG. I then mounted one of the roll fim holders on the camera back and removed the insert. With the cover door open I placed the GG (matt side towards the lens) on the edge register rails of the roll film holder and checked focus using the loupe. The image was not in focus and needed about a 1mm movement of the front standard to bring it back into focus, indicating that the camera was probably originally equiped with a fresnel screen which was now missing. I have written to the person who sold it to me and await a reply. In the meantime I have tried a Google search for Robert Pins in NJ as suggested by Henry but couldn't find anything - can you give me the URL please? If the original seller does not have the screen (likely) I will repeat the above excercise using a micrometer and get shims made up to fit the smaller edges of the focusing frame (where the retaining springs bear on the GG) to space it out by the required amount. By the way, the GG is not loose in the frame when the retaining springs are screwed down, and does not rattle

Henry · Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:11 pm Post subject:

Pins doesn't seem to have a website currently. His address is P.O. Box 406, Norwood, NJ 07648, phone 201-767-3619, fax 201-767-0028.

The fresnel topic always seems to generate lots and lots of chatter on the site. Some folks swear by them, others swear at them. My own take, after having gone to the trouble of equipping my Century with a fresnel, is that they are more or less useful depending on conditions, e.g., you won't miraculously see a hugely brighter image in dim light, but under "normal" viewing conditions you will see better into the corners of the finder as the fresnel tends to distribute the light evenly over the groundglass. In any case, you will definitely see the fresnel lines through your focusing loupe. If I had to do it again I probably wouldn't bother, but fitting a fresnel was an itch I just had to scratch.

[ This Message was edited by: Henry on 2006-07-22 06:50 ]

45PSS · Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:13 am Post subject:

pjviitas · Joined: 27 Jun 2006 Posts: 13 Location: Baffin Island

I am also in need of replacing my fresnel and there seems to be no easy way to solve this problem.

It is my understanding that if the camera came with a ground glass/fresnel assembly and one chooses not to use the fresnel, calibrating the ground glass so that it is sync with the film plane is not a strait forward matter.

I am interested in hearing if anyone has successfully replaced a fresnel with an aftermarket replacement.