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alski2005
Joined: 25 Dec 2005 Posts: 12 Location: London, UK
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Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 11:01 am Post subject: |
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Hi everyone,
Merry Christmas!
Firstly... this is fantastic! I've just been reading the posts and can't wait to get my 4x5!
I'm coming from 35mm photography. And looking to re-kindle some of the magic i seem to have lost, with a Graflex 4x5 of some sort. The problem is i live in London, UK. I've rung all the used/secondhand firms in the regular photography monthlys. But no one has a Graflex * Graphic or knows anything about them. Does anyone know of a anyone in the UK that might have any available?
I was bidding on a Speed Graphic on the 'Auction site', but a Super Speed Graphic is now available. I've looked at the two different models on this site, but would i be correct in saying the Super doesn't have a rangefinder viewfinder? And only has that pop-up WWI gun sight? Looking at some of the images with a Polaroid back on, there's an awfully big gap between the viewfinder and your eye. How do you guys compose your shots?
I know the Super has a rotating back and has a 1/1000th shutter. To be honest i think 1/400th is fast enough. But cannot accept barrel lenses as it doesn't have the 2nd shutter blind at the back.
I'm desperate to get one soon. I just don't know which one to go for. Another problem i'll have is getting one from the US and being shipped here by Air Mail. If i do find a UK seller. What should i look out for?
Thanking you in-advance for your help.
Have a fantastic Christmas and a very Happy New Year.
Alex |
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Les
Joined: 09 May 2001 Posts: 2682 Location: Detroit, MI
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Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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First off you don't need a Super Speed. If the shutter does malfunction it's darn near impossible to fix and you're right 1/400 is plenty fast enough.
Now a Super Graphic is the same body as the Super Speed but doesn't have the testy shutter. It has the advantages of a rotating back and better front movements. It does have a rangefinder similar to top rangefinder (rf) Pacemaker models. The one big drawback to the Super Graphic is that it doesn't handle shorter than 100mm well.
The best overall camera in my opinion is the Pacemaker Crown Graphic, It can take as short as a 47mm lens (though finding one to cover 4x5 will cost you dearly), and it has most of the movements you need for most of your picture taking needs.
But it doesn't have a window blind rear shutter. If you really like the idea of using barrel lenses then get a Pacemaker Speed Graphic. It should handle lenses as short as a 90mm, but it's thicker and heavier. You'll still need a front shuttered lens to do any kind of flash work.
Side rangefindered Speed Graphic cameras sometimes have an extension tube to help block out light and let you focus on the focusing. But note that the rangefinder finds the range, it doesn't find the view, the top mounted view finder approximates the vision of the lens and it's much large to help you compose. Most of the time I shoot loose, using the wire finder and crop in the darkroom.
Unlike 35mm you don't have to use every mm of the film size. If composition is critical, use the ground glass. |
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troublemaker
Joined: 24 Nov 2003 Posts: 715 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:01 am Post subject: |
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A couple things to think about:
The Super Graphic has the rangefinder built into the upper body. The Crown and Speed Graphic in the more abundant Pacemaker line came first with side mounted, and later incorporated the rangefinder on top in a plastic houseing; thety are known as such, Side or top range finder. The difference can be important in choosing which you want. The Super and Top rangefinders require special cams for the particular focal lenths of the lens in use. Keep in mind also that these were matched to the lens at the factory and are hard to match after the fact. Cams are also kind of pricey even if you find the right one for your lens. On the other hand, the side Kalart, while adjustable for more than one focal length, requires a bit of time to calibrate and therefore is considered a one lens set up, leaving all other lenses relegated to ground glass or scale focussing whereas cams can be changed fairly quickly if one has nimble fingers.
Another issue to familiarize yourself with is the different backs on these cameras. There are three, Graflok, Spring Graphic, and Graflex. The gralfex on a Pacemaker is a bit of an odity, but not entirely unknown, and it is the standard on many of the Chimney focussing SLR's. If you get a Super, you will get a revolving Graflok back and thus a versatile and useful back. If you get an older camera with a Spring back you will have to use only those film back accessories that can slip under the focussing panel as it does not remove. However, as in the case of the Crown, relates to a lighter camera, and polaroid and Grafmatics and many other holders will still fit properly. The main prblem is when wanting to use many of the popular 120 roll holders, which is a nice item to have, you can't fit them under a SPring back,. They do make roll holders that do but I persoannly have not used them, so can not report.
As far as weight: Speed 45's are heavy, but very cool, and the focal plane shutters can be very accurate compared to many old tired leaf shutters. There are also a lot of nice barrel lenses out there for less dough than in shutter if you like long lenses.
Crowns are lighter, and Les mentioned, can use a shorter wide angle. But keep in mind, a standard 127 or 135mm lens that ussually standard on a Graphic camera, is pretty wide already.
About 162mm would be more of a normal lens. Also keep in mind that most of the older press lenses like Ektar and Optars do not offer much movement if any, though you would have tons with a 120 format roll back.
Many folks retro-fit thier graphics with more modern lenses. Personal preference plays a big part in lens choice. I like the look of my older optics, even on color film. I get a distinct 1950's National Geographic look to some of my color landscapes, but some don't work well because of flare and glare and opperator error.
So keep reading and good luck on finding a serviceable Graphic.
(SPelling and gramatical air-urs provided for entertainment value only)
[ This Message was edited by: troublemaker on 2005-12-25 23:07 ] |
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Top
Joined: 06 Apr 2002 Posts: 198 Location: Northern New England USA
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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Check with the gent who goes by 'tinman' here, as he is in Great Britian and might be able to help you outfinding a camera.
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troublemaker
Joined: 24 Nov 2003 Posts: 715 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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And perhaps Graflex Sid will chime in |
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rocklaneeast
Joined: 28 Oct 2002 Posts: 18 Location: Newcastle N.E.England
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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I got (get) all my graflex graphic stuff from the U.S. Which so far is Military Speed graphic (Anniversary) Graflex series D slr and grafmatic to fit.Aero ektar to go on the speed and a few of the wollensak lenses. Theres greater choice in the US than the UK and often the cameras are still cheaper even with import duties. Graphic stuff seems grossly overpriced in the UK.
Camera fairs seem the best place to buy. Just got a 2x3 Busch pressman here in the NE but got some holders and a grafmatic from the U.S |
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Graflex Sid
Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 221 Location: London,England
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Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 11:23 am Post subject: |
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Alex:The Brits look in amazement at the Speed Graphic,I included other titles like Crown,because they wouldn't know what you were talking about.It's from a bygone age to the young-something they only recognize from old movies.
The best place to find a bargain is the US,and that includes Ebay.Make sure the seller has a good collection of photos on his/her site page.The most important is looking ALL around the camera for close inspection.Some Graphics look like they were dug up from the battlefields of Bataan,still including the mud.So beware.Don't be caught out.
Welcome to the wonderful World of the Graphic in whichever shape or form.May this give you many hours of pleasure throughout your lifetime.
Once you let it loose on the streets watch the reaction of the general public,you become Mr.Big Shot.You only need the hat & PRESS ticket sticking out of it.
Great Fun!.
Happy New Year,from Graphic Sid,London. |
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alski2005
Joined: 25 Dec 2005 Posts: 12 Location: London, UK
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:18 am Post subject: |
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Morning everyone.
Wow! Thank you all so much for taking the time to post your replies. Thanks to your comments i've decided to get a Crown Graphic. I'd spent all of yesterday going through the ads in Amateur Photographer and there is very short supply of 5x4 cameras here in the UK.
Looks like i'll have to get one from the US. There are quite a few minters on the 'auction site', the sellers must be busy, as very few of my questions have been answered. I'm staying well clear of the ones that look like they've been dug up out of a field! But i imagine i'll still have to get her ship shape. But who will be able to service her in the UK?
I've been buying some new 5x4 sheet film in anticipation of getting my 5x4 camera! I really cannot wait!
Thanks again and have a Happy New Year!
Alex |
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Top
Joined: 06 Apr 2002 Posts: 198 Location: Northern New England USA
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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If you get a side RF Crown you can do most of the work on it yourself, as long as the shutter is good.
After working on Contax and Rolleiflex, it's nice to work on an old Speed or Crown, where you can get screws, nuts, and bolts at the local hardware store.
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Henry
Joined: 09 May 2001 Posts: 1648 Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania
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Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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Wonder what the situation is in the UK with regard to availability of metric vs. "English" threads? BTW, whenever I need the small stuff in machine screws, etc., I seek out the nearest well-stocked model railroad hobby shop that caters to what we used to call the "scratchbuilder" in the hobby, i.e., somebody who made stuff "from scratch" as opposed to a kit or ready-to-run. |
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alski2005
Joined: 25 Dec 2005 Posts: 12 Location: London, UK
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Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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Hi everyone!
Thanks to all of you for your help and advice. I'd had a good think about the various Graphics and found a late Crown Graphic on the 'Auction site', with a Graflex Top Range Finder, Schneider 135 Xenar for $425. A bit dear but it looks in pretty good condition. The 2 little wires in the viewfinder even work which is great. The only problem is the fresnel lens is missing, but a frosted ground glass screen is included. I'm going to start a thread in minute about this as i'm a little concerned and will discuss it more there.
I haven't received it yet. It should be dispatched today, so should be with me in 4-10 working days. I can't wait!
Thanks again,
Alex |
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R_J
Joined: 03 Aug 2004 Posts: 137 Location: Europe
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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" The problem is i live in London, UK."
That's a terrible proposition, isn't it?
Hello Alex,
I had the same local information dearth as you. Although you've probably sorted your Graflex out now, you might try:
http://www.mrcad.co.uk
- the owner (also called Alex) used to stock a lot of older 5x4" Graflex material.
It's great to see another countryman interested in this American phenomenon. I think I have a 5x4" fresnel (not mint, but very good nonetheless) if you have problems finding one. I misestimated the size of the fresnel for the Century Graphic originally
The lens panels shouldn't be too hard to find as your 5x4" ones are internationally standard. The Century 2x3" plates are a nightmare to find here. I've managed to find 2 over a 2 year period.
Frankly I've not found the rangefinder particularly useful; the dimness of it renders it very slow and with a 2x3, the camera is fairly heavy for hand-holding at eye level. One way around it is to pre-focus on a wide-angle (i.e. 47mm or 65mm) with an infinity lock tag.
With respect to your question about composition - the subject matter determines the technique for me. In landscape work, the ground-glass (invariably). For random pastische, mostly zone focussing or rangefinder.
With respect to time-exposures, 1/1000s is rather extraordinary for large format photography. I guess the only film medium appropriate for this kind of shooting would be the ISO 320,000 speed Polaroid film; perhaps HP5+ pushed by 2 - 3 stops or flash with a leaf shutter. Last year year the fastest shutter speed I managed on the Graflex was 1/8th of a second....
You might try and find a Grafmatic film back to fit the Grafloks.
The Americans seem to like Badger Photographics in the States, as well as the large photographic place (?Mid-West Camera Stores?)
Good luck and welcome to the forum.
Kind regards,
RJ |
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Henry
Joined: 09 May 2001 Posts: 1648 Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:53 am Post subject: |
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I've bought Century 2x3 lens boards from two sources here: (1) famous auction website, and (2) Midwest Photo Exchange ( http://www.mpex.com ). I just had a bit of trouble navigating their site (got a "timed out" message after about one minute!) but they may be able to help. Probably an expensive proposition for you in the UK to order them from here, but this may be your only alternative (?). Good luck.
[ This Message was edited by: Henry on 2006-01-14 19:54 ] |
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45PSS
Joined: 28 Sep 2001 Posts: 4081 Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.
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Henry
Joined: 09 May 2001 Posts: 1648 Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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Again WRT Century lensboards, check the home page of Midwest Photo Exchange and see whether you can e-mail them with an inquiry. I don't see any Century lens boards on their list at the moment, but that doesn't mean they don't have any. You could probably do the whole transaction with an international postal money order if you can settle on a pounds-to-dollars figure. Haven't looked lately, but not so long ago things were definitely moving in your favor WRT the exchange rate (your pound bought more of our dollars, and my dollars bought fewer pounds).
P.S. Whoops, I just noticed that "R_J" who posted about the above topic lists "Europe" as his/her location, not UK. Mutatis mutandis!
[ This Message was edited by: Henry on 2006-01-15 07:36 ] |
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