Graflex.org

wtp · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 4

Hi gang,
I am brand new to the forum and to Graflex photography.
I have more questions than answers regarding L.F. photography and I want to start with this one: I have a 203mm lens with a bad shutter and a 127mm len on a good shutter. What are the rules regarding exchanging the lenses? Is it simply a matter of unscrewing the front and rear lens elements of the 127 and then screwing the 203 into the shutter?
Thanks,
wtp

glennfromwy · Joined: 29 Nov 2001 Posts: 903 Location: S.W. Wyoming

I'm going to go out on a limb, here. I'll guess, by the lens descriptions, that both are in Supermatic shutters. If so, the 127 will be in a number 2 shutter. If the 203 is also in a number 2 Supermatic, you can swap them. Watch very carefully for any shims between shutter and lens cells. If there are any, keep them with the respective cell and use them with the "new" shutter. I hope this helps. I could be way off base. If the shutters are not the ones I described, don't try it.

_________________
Glenn

"Wyoming - Where everybody is somebody else's weirdo"

wtp · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 4

Thanks for the info! One is in a Supermatic, the other in a Graflex but the threads are the same on both. I will check for shims when I get ready to try to make the switch. Any other words of wisdom will be appreciated.
WTP

primus96 · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:02 pm Post subject:

I have sent a lens and shutter combination to SK Grimes.
I already had a shutter so he's going to check it out and also make a new aperture scale.
If the lens elements meed special adapters machining the cost can be enough to make you wince.

Is the 203mm lens a Wide Field Ektar?
The elements will screw into the shutter you have? If so you are looking at around US170 for a CLA and new apertre scale.
Check out prices on that certain auction site to see what a lens would be worth.

t.r.sanford · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 8:12 pm Post subject:

Another consideration is the aperture scale. You might get "close enough for government work" with some basic arithmetic, but unless you're up for some experimentation, it would be preferable to give the job to someone who has done that sort of thing often, and has the necessary information (and equipment for engraving a new scale).

RichS · Posted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:19 pm Post subject:

You've pretty much already got the answers, but I do love to toss out 2 cents worth of my mind now and then

There really aren't any hard rules to lens/shutter combinations. The only critical things are the threads to screw them together, and the spacing of the elements. Since you said the cells will screw in, lets talk spacing...

Do you have any accurate method of measuring the thickness of the two shutters? A caliper works well for this. If the shutters are the same thickness, you're set. If the new shutter is thicker, you're in trouble. If the new shutter is thinner, you may be able to shim (thin washers that go over the threads between cell and shutter).

And this cell spacing has a lot to do with the design of the cells. I recently went through this with a Turner & Reich convertible cell set. My "new" shutter was 3mm thicker than the old one. Since the old shutter was shot, I swapped anyway. Did some testing and the lens works fine. Showing that the spacing on that particular lens was not that critical. You can test yours too.

By the way, when I say 'thickness' of the shutter, I mean the distance from one side of the threads (front) to the other (back), or the distances between the cells...

And for the f-stop scale. You've heard the options for having one made. For a good lens, this is the right thing to do if you can afford it. For mine, I measured, glued a white label on front of the shutter, and wrote the new f-stops on the label. To do this, you need a way to measure light on the ground glass (not off the GG!). A meter with a GG probe is the only way I know how. I suppose you could rig up somehting with any reflective meter as long as it doesn't change position or distance from the GG and lets no ambient light to get between the two.

If you have the equipment and want to make your own scale, let me know and I'll spell out the method, which is really very simple, as long as you have another lens with at least one accurate f-stop.

Good luck with it all, and welcome to graflex

glennfromwy · Joined: 29 Nov 2001 Posts: 903 Location: S.W. Wyoming

Ah, too bad they weren't both Supermatics, then you could swap the scales. Ektar lenses are supposed to be critical about cell spacing, so check carefully. Another way, though primitive, to make an aperture scale is to measure the diameter of the iris opening at a given stop on the old shutter. Then transfer that diameter and stop number to the new one. Or, you could have S.K. Grimes make you new scales for something like 45 bucks.

_________________
Glenn

"Wyoming - Where everybody is somebody else's weirdo"

troublemaker · Joined: 24 Nov 2003 Posts: 715 Location: So Cal

Hey what is wrong with the one shutter. I have found these things are pretty easy to get working. Most noteably is that others have tried to take them apart and do not know how to put them back together. It seems more often than not it is simply a matter of gettng the springs in the right places, and or a bit of maintenance and disassembly of the retarding mechanism. They need to be cleaned, perhaps debured and lubed properly. Ronsonol soaking is absolutely not helpful with worn retarding mechanisms (actually makes them worse because they will then rust) and timers which work the same. I have taken some completely inoperative supermatics and have them running within reasonable tollerance. Just takes nimble fingers and a lot of patience. Sort of a puzzle if you will. As far as switching, you might just see how it looks with a loupe on the GG and test with film. Can you do a timed exposure with the broken shutter and compare to the other one etc??? One could probably bracket a couple stopped down exposures to make sure it will work before paying for a Aperture scale...

Henry · Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:49 am Post subject:

wtp, is it time to try the "Ronsonol Soak" on your bad shutter? Maybe you can get it working that way.

If you can't, and it's the Graphex, then probably the best guy to work on it would be Fred Lustig out in Nevada. I can dig up a phone number (he's not on the 'net) if pressed. A few months ago he resurrected a basket case Graphex shutter for me; he has the parts and know-how. It wasn't cheap, but I had the lens/shutter for free and he did the job right.

[ This Message was edited by: Henry on 2004-12-06 17:58 ]

wtp · Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 4

Wow!! This is almost more than my tiny brain can comprehend! I think that I will just leave the 127mm lens in the shutter that it is in, at least for now. I haven't shot a frame with this outfit yet so I should get my feet wet and then see where I should go from there. I do have another lens/shutter coming. It's a 135mm so it will have a little more coverage I guess. I have been shooting film for 30 years and the "D word" for about 1 1/2 years. But I have never shot any L.F. so I am looking forward to it and...I am as green as grass in the spring time when it comes to this format.
As for the shutter... I'll fess up and say that I got it apart and lubed it and the mechanism seem to be working fine now...But I'm not quite sure how to get it back together again. I had the same problem with a BB gun when I was a kid..but that's another story.
Thanks,
wtp

Henry · Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 3:04 pm Post subject:

Reprint shutter maintenance manuals are available from http://www.photobooksonline.com. I have the Graphex one and it has been invaluable to me with small fixes to the syncronizer and other adjustments.

troublemaker · Joined: 24 Nov 2003 Posts: 715 Location: So Cal

Oops. Supermatic shutters are kinda trick to get back together. I have done a couple now. I have a bunch of Optars and a couple Ektars and I tend to prefer the Optars Except for a late model coated Ektar. However, once one gets to know the characteristics of certain lenses, it can be fun to work with them for different results due thier inherent vintage glow or difusion if you will.
regards,
Stephen
P.S. wtb, check your private massages

[ This Message was edited by: troublemaker on 2004-12-07 18:32 ]