Graflex.org

frohnec · Joined: 12 May 2004 Posts: 57 Location: Virginia

Are there any good lessons on how to load and shoot using the 4 x 5 Graflex film holder?
Chris

Les · Joined: 09 May 2001 Posts: 2682 Location: Detroit, MI

Graflex film holders work the same as regular holders in terms of loading....

pull the dark slide back, flip the bottom of the holder out, slide the film in under the rails, flip the bottom flap back, close the darkslide.

To use, attach the holder with the slide lock a the top (or top and bottom if you have a Pacemaker) pull the darkslide, shoot, replace darkslide.

Now a Graflex Film MAGAZINE , or bag mag is different. Is that what you were asking about?

t.r.sanford · Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 12:43 am Post subject:

Have you done any work with sheetfilm in double-sided holders, prior to acquiring your "Speed Graphic"?

If you haven't, your question may require a bit of clarification before it can be answered to your complete satisfaction.

For example, are you speaking of a Graflex holder as one made by Graflex, or specifically of a "Graflex" holder -- a holder made for one of two different kinds of Graflex camera backs, the alternative being a holder for the other kind, called "Graphic" or, later, "Graflok"?

frohnec · Joined: 12 May 2004 Posts: 57 Location: Virginia

I have never done any work with 4 x 5 film holders. I just got this camera Wed with no instruction manual.
The film holder is listed as 4 x 5 Graflex and then some numbers.
I do not know how to load it.
SHoot with it.
And etc.

45PSS · Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 1:20 am Post subject:

How many sheets of film will it hold, 2, 6 or 12?
What are the numbers?
We cannot see it thru your eyes.

_________________
The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.

t.r.sanford · Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 2:28 am Post subject:

...the point being that sheetfilm (cutfilm) has been around for over a hundred years, and during that time, lots of different ways were found for getting it safely into position for exposure in a camera.

In the United States, the most common was and is a double-sided holder. This holds two sheets of film, one on each side, and protects them by means of darkslides that you pull out when ready to make an exposure. Metal rims on the ends of the slides give you something to grip. They usually are painted black on one side and left bright on the other. You load the holder in the dark, and insert the slides so the bright sides are out. After inserting the holder into the camera, pulling the slide and making the exposure, you flip the slide over so the black-painted side is out before reinserting it. This tells you which films you've exposed, when you're carrying half a dozen holders in a bag or in your pockets.

There also were several magazine holders that could accommodate more than two sheets of film. The most recent was called a "Grafmatic," and was a metal box of ingenious construction that held six "septums," thin metal sheets folded over at each edge and the back to accept a sheet of film. The thing can be imagined as consisting of three parts: the box itself, a carriage sliding in and out of the box, and a darkslide traveling with the carriage. A disc with the numbers 1 through 6 was visible at one end. You loaded the septums in the dark and slipped them into the carriage, one atop the other. You slid the carriage back into the box and the darkslide into the carriage. The disc showed "1." You made the first exposure by pulling the slide out and taking the picture, then pushing the slide back in. You then gripped a handle at the end of the carriage, then pulled it out (which allowed a spring to pop the septum in shooting position into the bottom of the box) and pushed it in (so the stack went back into position with the second septum now on top). The disc turned to show "2" and you were ready to do it all again.

There was an earlier type of magazine which held sheetfilm or glass dry plates in septums. It is familiarly called a "bag mag," and I've never worked with one, so I don't know how it operated. Looking at one, you get the feeling that the user manipulated a lightproof bag in some manner to pull the top septum off the stack and slip it onto the bottom, but I have no idea how this was done.

The other issue, what kind of camera back your holder is for, is important because, if you have a double-sided holder, you will want more of them and you need to get the right kind.

Do you know for a fact that the one you have works with your camera?

The difference between "Graphic" and "Graflex" holders is that the "Graphic" kind has a raised ridge or boss on the right-hand end (the end the darkslide comes out of), which runs across the face of the holder at the right of the film gate. It mates with a groove formed in the camera back, serving as a light trap and helping to keep the holder securely in place when you pull the darkslide out.

"Graphic" holders are designed to work with a spring-loaded focusing panel on the back of the camera, under which you slip them and which holds them in place.

"Graflex" holders have a deep, narrow groove on the right end (the end the darkslide comes out of). This mates with a flange protruding from the camera back.

"Graflex" holders were designed to work with a back that has a sliding bar that comes down to hold them in place. If you wanted a focusing panel, you inserted it in place of a film holder.

"Graflex" holders were mostly used on big Graflex reflex cameras, which normally were used without a focusing panel on the back, because they already had a focusing screen on top.

"Graphic" holders were made for press and view cameras, which had spring-loaded focusing panels as standard equiment.

"Speed Graphic" cameras usually have "Graphic" backs or the later "Graflok" backs. When they were available, you could order one with a "Graflex" back, or have a "Graflex" back installed on one. You might do this if you already owned a Graflex reflex camera and a lot of holders for it, and you wanted to use them on your "Speed Graphic" too.

A "Graphic" back has the focusing panel held onto the camera back by two flat metal springs, top and bottom, with bolts through the middle of each.

A "Graflok" back has two shiny metal arms that are pivoted at the right side, with strong coil dprings on the pivot to pull the focusing panel against the camera body. The arms terminate in central hooks, which snap under mating lugs recessed into the camera back.

t.r.sanford · Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 3:13 am Post subject:

So, if the question is "How does one load a double-sided cutfilm holder?" the answer from Les outlines the procedure accurately. There are two points to keep in mind --

(1) It's helpful to develop a methodical approach to handling film and holders in the dark. In general, you want to prepare the holders with the light on, making sure the darkslides are pulled all the way back (but not out -- why fumble around trying to get them back in with the lights off? -- and that the metal rims have their shiny sides facing out.

As Les explained, you pull the hinged ends (the end on the opposite side from the darkslides) down, so the film can slip in. You will see two metal rails or "rabbets" on the long edges of the holder's inside. Their ends bend up a bit, to make it easier to get the sheet under them.

(2) Cutfilm is supplied in boxes, and the sheets are interleaved with thin pieces of black paper to protect the emulsion. The important thing to know is which side of the sheet the emulsion is on.

To make this easy to determine, the manufacturer cuts a notch or notches in one narrow end of each sheet. When you hold the sheet in your hand so that this notch in on the end facing away from you, then when the notch is on the right, the emulsion is up.

So you turn off the lights, open the box -- deal with the internal second box top that acts as a light trap and the foil envelope containing the film (for which purpose, you probably want a pair of scissors handy) -- and get started.

You lift the first sheet out, make sure the paper separator falls away, and orient it so the notch is at the right side facing away from you. Your right index finger will find the notch when the sheet is lying on the palm of your hand, correctly oriented.

You pick up the first cutfilm holder with your left hand so the darkslides are sticking out to the left, and the open hinged end is facing right. You now move the sheet of film you're holding loosely in your right hand into the open end of the holder.

(The emulsion side will be facing up, and so will be facing the back of the lens when you slip the holder into the camera and withdraw the slide.)

You work deliberately, making sure both edges of the sheet have slid beneath the rabbets. It's easy to miss one or both, and you really don't want to do that.

The easiest way to make sure is, when you've slid the film about halfway in, flex the free end and feel whether either edge pops up out of the holder. If it does, back the sheet out and start again.

Push the film all the way in, swing the hinged end shut, and push the darkslide in until it mates with the slot on the hinged end. If you haven't slid the sheet all the way in, the hinged end will not lie flat, and the darkslide won't engage it. If that happens, open the end and push the film farther in.

(3) Finally, the holder should have two small metal right-angled hooks sticking out of the far end (the end the darkslides go into). Rotate one of them so its end swings over the metal lip, preventing accidental withdrawal of the darkslide.

Now turn the holder over, pick up the second sheet of film and do it again.

This sounds like a lot of trouble, but when you develop a method, it can be done very fast and without difficulty. You can load ten sheets of film into five holders in two or three minutes, without breaking a sweat.

frohnec · Joined: 12 May 2004 Posts: 57 Location: Virginia

The film holder fits on the camera and has 4 x 5 Graflex with a part number etched.
I imagine it holds 2 negatives one on each side.
There is no other back on the camera except the holder is that normal?
I see the hooks that lock in the slider and also the light and dark sides of the slides.

t.r.sanford · Posted: Sat May 15, 2004 1:28 am Post subject:

If the camera came to you with the holder in place, as you describe it, and nothing else, then it certainly does sound like a "Graflex" back. There is nothing at all abnormal about this, although the "Speed Graphic" press cameras more often were fitted with the other kind of back.

To be as clear as possible: the film holder is latched onto the back by a slider on the top rail of the back, rather than being held in place between the rails by a spring-loaded panel?

If you didn't get a focusing panel that can replace the filmholder in the back, you face a challenge in making sure the rangefinder is accurately adjusted for the particular lens you have installed. This can only be done by focusing images of a target at various distances on a groundglass in the back, then adjusting the rangefinder accordingly.

It would not be a matter of great difficulty to make a focusing panel; you can imagine what such a thing would look like. The most delicate part is devising a way to mount the groundglass screen in the panel in such a way that the distance from the camera side of the panel's inward-facing surface to the ground or etched surface of the screen is the same as the distance from the surface of the film holder to the surface of a piece of film slid into it.

It might be more straightforward to find a "Graflex" focusing panel of the correct size for your camera than to make one, or it might not. That depends on your resources and your enthusiasm for making things. But you do want a focusing panel, one way or the other. Not only do you need it to calibrate the rangefinder, but you lose half the functionality of the camera if you can't compose on a groundglass when making close-up photos, doing pictorial work, etc.

Alternatively -- and this would be my choice -- you might look for a "Graflok" back and install it in place of the "Graflex" back. The "Graflok" back would give you access to a wide range of accessories, such as rollfilm and Polaroid film adapters. But it would not accommodate a "Graflex" cutfilm holder; you'd need the "Graphic" kind.

frohnec · Joined: 12 May 2004 Posts: 57 Location: Virginia

Yes, there is a metal tab that comes down and locks the film holder in place.
From your description it sounds as if I need a Graflok back to accomodate a 545 Polaroid holder - is that true?
Also I need a ground glass back to calibrate the Kalart side mounted rangefinder?
Does a graflok back have a ground glass already in it?
What kind of film holder would i use with the Graflok back?
Would a Graflok back on a Crown fit the Speed Graphic?

[ This Message was edited by: frohnec on 2004-05-14 19:11 ]

[ This Message was edited by: frohnec on 2004-05-14 19:19 ]

45PSS · Posted: Sat May 15, 2004 2:27 am Post subject:

1). download Adobe Reader and install it on your computer.
2). go to http://www.southbristolviews.com/
click on graflex manuals on the bottom of the left menu, download the Pacemaker(1.1meg) file.
3). open or print it and read it 3 times.

A top Rangefinder Crown is the same camera as a Side Rangefinder Crown if the rangefinders were removed from both.

_________________
The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.

glennfromwy · Joined: 29 Nov 2001 Posts: 903 Location: S.W. Wyoming

Maybe this will simplify things a little. You say there are sliders on the back of the camera. The "Graflex" back sliders are straight bars, no tabs. Holders for these have grooves down the sides and are marked Graflex, NOT "Graphic". They don't fit anything else and no other holders fit the "Graflex" style back. The "Graflok" back has tabs on the sliders and holders for these do not have grooves down the sides and are marked "Graphic". Any modern holders fit this back. If you do have a "Graflok" back and you are missing the ground glass focus panel, you will need to get one. The sliders on the Graflok back will not hold the film holder in position, nor is it meant to. You need the spring loaded focus panel to hold them, and to focus. They show up on eBay now and then. Not cheap. I strongly suggest that you thoroughly read the instructions and pictures on this site to become more familiar with your camera. Also visit the South Bristol Views site for info.
Good luck -----

_________________
Glenn

"Wyoming - Where everybody is somebody else's weirdo"

frohnec · Joined: 12 May 2004 Posts: 57 Location: Virginia

Nice website - downloaded the manual as suggested.
TR explained about the ground glass home made holder. Essentially the ground glass holder must be mounted in to the graflex back so that the surface of the ground glass facing the user must be the same exact location, on the same plane as it were, of the film in a film holder.

t.r.sanford · Posted: Sat May 15, 2004 3:49 am Post subject:

So far, so good. We need to clarify a point or two --

First, you mentioned earlier that your camera has a plate mounted on the top that lists curtain apertures and tension settings for the focal plane shutter. This means that you don't have a "Pacemaker," but an earlier model. It may well be an "Anniversary"; my "Anniversary" has that plate on the top, too.

There were two even earlier "Speed Graphic" models, less common, both with the Graflex shutter. I don't know where the shutter setting tables were situated on those; I've seen them in various places around Graflex cameras of different sorts. There is some good historical information on this site about "Speed Graphic" models, and you might find it interesting and helpful.

Second: if your double-sided cutfilm holder latches into the back by means of a flat bar that slides down from the top rail, then it is a "Graflex" back and a "Graflex" holder. The "Graflok" back has some superficial resemblance to the earlier "Graflex" pattern, but the horizontal faces of its back rails are angled in, not vertical, and it has flat sliding bars (bright chrome) on both the top and the bottom rail. It was not designed to work with a cutfilm holder that was held in place by these sliders, but with one that slid under a removable focusing panel. Its light trapping arrangement is that of the earlier "Graphic" back, and it will not work with "Graflex" accessories.

You cannot use a Polaroid "545" holder with a "Graflex" back, because the light trap on the holder will not mate with the one on the back, and the width may be slightly different too.

You can use a Polaroid "545" holder with a "Graflok" back, either by sliding it under the focusing panel just like a cutfilm holder, or by latching it in place with the two sliding bars. That holder is made with slots in the top and bottom faces that will engage with the "Graflok" sliding retainers.

You also can use a Polaroid "545" holder with the earlier "Graphic" back, by sliding it under the focusing panel just as you would a cutfilm holder. It is thin enough to fit. That is not the case with the Polaroid "450" (filmpack) holder, which wants a "Graflok" back.

Third, used "Graflok" backs may or may not come with the focusing panel; you'll see a surprising number on eBay without the panel, and another surprising number with the panel but without its focusing hood (I can't imagine what the previous owners did with them; they're not good for anything else but attaching to a "Graflok" back).

The absence of a hood isn't fatal, though it's annoying. The absence of the focusing panel itself is a more serious matter. While it would not be impossible to make one with hand tools, it would be more difficult than making a "Graflex" or "Graphic" focusing panel.

There is good information about the three back styles on this site.

I do not know of any reason why a "Graflok" back could not be fitted to a pre-"Anniversary Speed Graphic" or its precursor, the original "Speed Graphic" -- but I have never examined either of those models up close, and I don't know for certain. I'm sure the retrofit could be made, but it might involve a bit more thought than it does with an "Anniversary" or an early "Pacemaker."

BTW, if you decide to spend a quarter of an hour looking for "Graflok" backs on eBay (etc.), you might want to be aware that people spell them all different ways, and you sometimes get better results by doing a search for "[any of these words] Graflok, Graflok, Graphlok, Graphlock"...