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SpeedFreak · Joined: 17 Mar 2004 Posts: 9 Location: Northern California

I recently picked up a Speed Graphic on eBay, serial number 824168. It has a Graphex Wollensak shutter with a 135 mm Graflex Optar f/4.7 lens. The shutter seems to work. I've done a few shots in the 1/50 1/100 range with the front shutter with some ISO 400 Portra film and they look pretty good.

But there are some obvious problems and searching this site I see some solutions, but I'd like to get some opinions fresh to my situation anyway. So I have a list:

The bellows has a seam at the bottom that is coming undone. Everything seems to be tight at close infinity stops, but if I open it up, I wouldn't be suprised to find some leaks. I have no experience in this area, but that's what it looks like.
Related to the bellows problem is the cable that links the shutter at the front to the body release. This cable is routed under the bellows with some wire loops attached to the bellows. The cable is pretty badly chewed up and seems to have contributed to the bellows coming undone by pulling on the wires that route it above the bellows rails. It seems as though the cable has been caught in the crack in the rails where the rails fold up and this has contributed to it being chewed up. It doesn't look like a very happily designed arrangement.
The shutter seems to work in the mid ranges as I mention. But the Bulb and Time settings do not work. They only open the shutter and cannot close it. I close it by moving the time setting off onto a fraction setting. The shutter opener does not work either. The rest of the speeds seem to work OK. At least they release.
The plane shutter does not seem to wind up. It will not release even when selected.
The body is pretty scuffed up and won't clean up with Windex alone. There appears to be some oxidation or something on it.

So there is a bunch of stuff I'd like to take care of. I have an overhaul manual -- another eBay item. It is an old military manual, "Overhaul Instructions - Ground Camera - Press - Type C-6". It's a nice reprint.

My first priority is the lens shutter. I think I could handle taking the thing apart if I could get the lenses off. How do you do that? I"ve seen lens wrenches advertised for certain model lensboards or something. What do I need for this? There's also this little gizmo taped to the lens board on the back. It is number 38 on figure 4-14 in my manual. It looks like its been there a while. I'm guessing that this is to replace what has worn out that creates the problems I'm having with the shutter.

My next priority would be the bellows. What should I use to bond the seam back together? What about the wires? Any tips about how to make sure they come out again? How about how to bond them into place?

Next would be the release cable. Can I get another one? I'd just get some other release, but the thread on the shutter does not fit the usual tapered threads of most cable shutter releases you find. What should I be looking for to fit the shutter body? But really, I'd like to get an original part replacement for the side release arrangement to keep the camera authentic and I like the idea of being able to release the shutter on the body. I with you could do that with the Toyo CF, which is another ambition.

Next would be the rear shutter. This is not absolutely necessary for my purposes, but I think it might be fun to get it going. Any advise on what to expect regarding functionality and parts availability?

Cleaning the bellows and body would be my last project after everything else has been disassembled to work on it. Any way I can patch up all those nicks in the leatherette surface? What about a more powerful cleaner? I heard about some STP vinyl treatment for the bellows in another thread here. Would that work on the body too?

So what do people think? Any ideas? Anyone?

[ This Message was edited by: SpeedFreak on 2004-03-20 23:12 ]

t.r.sanford · Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 1:37 pm Post subject:

I'd recommend "Pliobond" as a good adhesive for bellows seams. About ten years ago, I repaired a "View II" bellows that was coming undone, and the bond remains tight and flexible today.

Replacement cables for the "Pacemaker" body release show up from time to time; there was one listed on eBay within the past two weeks. There are people who regard the whole body release concept as ill-conceived, but I've always found it helpful. I agree that the wire loops on the bottom of the bellows are kind of scary, but I have an old (side RF) "Pacemaker" that has the original bellows with those loops, and everything is still intact.

The front and rear lens cells should just unscrew, in the way you'd expect any threaded piece to do. I'd try something like one of those rubber straps sold for removing jar lids before resorting to any kind of wrench.

You'll probably need to take a look at the FP shutter to see what's wrong with it. The mechanism is not complicated, but it is very ingenious and not exactly "intuitive"! Careful inspection, cleaning and judicious lubrication may be all that's needed.

Rangemaster · Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:59 pm Post subject:

I just finished doing one of my crowns back to shootable condition, the front shutter worked as your does, took just a small amount of ronsonol lighter fluid and cycling the shutter a few times to clean it up and get it back into specs as checked on my shutter tester, both T and B now work correctly.

The bottom seam on the bellows was repaired with a small amount of rubber cement, I have used rubber cement on sevral different models the oldest one has held up for around ten years now with no problems.

I choose t remove the body shutter release cable and wire frames, as I have never had much luck and have seen them cause damage if not really paying attention when folding back up, of course I use my Graphics, etc as field cameras so they are always on a tripod with a regular release cable.

I clean the bellows includeing the old black paper tape and electrical tape and replaced with Gaffers tape, which is a real nice strong cloth tape that takes real nice to forming the correct shape when folded with the bellows.

I have in the past used auto interior vinyl repair kits to fill holes in the body covering, by matching the included pattern sheets to the grain on the camera and then mixing up a small amount of the repair material and applying, not perfect, but not noticable unless really looking close.

I don't restore for collecting, but use for work within my business, the older 4 x 5 graphics are great for landscape work in Glacier National park where I live. and if one gets dropped or falls off a cliff..(don't laugh, it has happend twice now) thanks to overly curious visitors! I have not lost a great amount of money, although heart broken, I would hate one of my Wistas or Linhofs to end up that way!

I do have the orginal cable release that fits your camera and would be willing to give to you, just pay the shipping.

anyway hope that helps.

Dave Parker

SpeedFreak · Joined: 17 Mar 2004 Posts: 9 Location: Northern California

Dave, what kind of cable release do you use to replace the original? Does it have the usual tapered threads?

Rangemaster · Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 6:36 pm Post subject:

Yes,

I have never had a problem with a standard cable release fitting on the shutter of any of them I have purchased, I have however seen the shutter screw socket have gunk in it that can cause a problem with them fitting correctly, heck the Crown I just put back in shooting condition was full of bug carcusses and had a spider nest cotten ball embeed in the cable release socket..

Go figure, Oh on previous post I forgot to mention the way I get the lens cells out on difficult shutters has been using the bottom of my rubber tennis shoes soles, I take the shutter out of the board and firmly press against the sole of my shoe and firmly start working it counter clockwise, have never had a problem, but sometimes it does take a while with shutters that are really stuck.

Let me know if I can help further.

Dave

SpeedFreak · Joined: 17 Mar 2004 Posts: 9 Location: Northern California

Do you remove the lens from the lensboard or do you just take it all apart while still attached? Do you remove the lens from the lens board on any of your other cameras? If so, isn't there a small tool involved?

t.r.sanford · Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2004 8:02 pm Post subject:

It's helpful to remove the shutter from the lensboard in order to work on it. "Pacemaker" boards lend themselves to mountin shutters on them with jam nuts, which usually have two slots in them. You'll also see mounting flanges that were designed to be held on with screws used as jam nuts; these usually have three holes for the screws.

The small tool is a spanner, and you can get them from a variety of sources. A camera technician I once knew taught me to use a chain nose pliers, which can be done, but it requires a strong, sure grip.

disemjg · Joined: 10 Jan 2002 Posts: 474 Location: Washington, DC

Rubber tools are very useful as they apply force uniformly and are non-marring. The best way to put one in your tool box is to obtain a section of inner tube from a motorcycle or car tire; try to get a piece from a tube that is not too thick. About 1/16th does the trick. Put it flat on your bench, place the item face down on the rubber and twist. Almost always works on the first try.

You can also use rubber drain plugs, which are available in several sizes. I have one that is perfect for loosening the retaining ring on the face of the larger Graphix shutters.

If you use the rubber tool to tighten anything (generally not recommended) be very careful as this tool is quite powerful and you can easily overtighten things and damage or bind them. You are much better off just gently tightening things by hand.

SpeedFreak · Joined: 17 Mar 2004 Posts: 9 Location: Northern California

I'm pleased to report that the lighter fluid trick worked. It worked a couple ways, it loosened the lenses and made them easier to remove and it freed up the shutter and put B and T back in operation and maybe the opener too. Although, I think I simply misunderstood its operation. However if one were to try this, you should have some lens cleaner handy because it fogged up the lens when I added it. Also, can anyone tell me if lighter fluid would damage a lens coating?

The reason I keep asking about cable release fittings is because when I put my little cheapo cable release on with the tapered fitting, it will not activate the shutter release. I notice that if I poke around in the cable release hole it will activate the shutter release. I just assumed that the unit was being cross threaded because the thread was wrong. Now I think something more fundamental is wrong and I'm getting ready to open up the shutter.

I'd still like to remove the lens from the lens board with a tool made for the purpose which brings me to another question. What kind of shutter type does the Graphic lens board take. When looking around the closest thing I see to some kind of standard is the "Copal" size opening, Copal 0, 3, etc.

Any comments anyone?

Rangemaster · Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:59 pm Post subject:

speedfreak,

If you go to the website skgrimes.com there is a listing of the different size shutters and what holes they require in the lens boards, you can quite often find spcific lens wrenches ont he dreaded auction site, many times there will be a number of them in a set, grimes website sells lens wrenches as well, I have never used them in the several years I have worked on cameras, but many do and if they did charge so much for them I guess I would as well, I am just to darn cheap to pay what they want.

I have never put lighter fluid in my shutter without first removing the lens cells, to many of the older coatings are to prone to damage from different substances.

glad you were abl to get closer to getting things workin.

Dave

SpeedFreak · Joined: 17 Mar 2004 Posts: 9 Location: Northern California

Wow. Is there any way to tell if I damaged the lens coating on this set?

SpeedFreak · Joined: 17 Mar 2004 Posts: 9 Location: Northern California

I said that the lenses were fogged after I added the Ronsonol, but not seriously. They dried up right away. They don't look like any kind of lens coating is damaged. Would the effect be more subtle then that?

t.r.sanford · Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:35 pm Post subject:

I very much doubt that benzine will do much damage to a lens coating, especially if you get it off right away, as you apparently did. I don't think you need to worry about a residual effect. If the lens cells look clear when you've cleaned inside and outside surfaces carefully with a good cleanser, like Kodak's, or isopropyl alcohol (in either case, applied to the lens gauze, not to the lens), I think you're in good shape.

SpeedFreak · Joined: 17 Mar 2004 Posts: 9 Location: Northern California

I finally got some lens cleaner and it doesn't look as though the spotting from the ronsonol fog hurt the coating. The bellows were able to be repaired quite nicely after I removed them. I've decided to leave the original shutter cable off. I've also removed the whole plane shutter assembly and covered the area with a plate. I did the same thing to the range finder which also wasn't working very well. The problem with the cable release in the shutter was solved when I overhauled it. It was just a loose screw blocking the cable probe.