Graflex.org

Joe Koski · Joined: 09 Feb 2004 Posts: 39 Location: Southwest USA

Does anyone have any experience adapting a modern 135 mm f5.6 Nikkor W to the 4x5 Anniversary Speed Graphic? The idea appeals to me because the Nikkor could use the 52 mm filter collection from my Nikon SLRs, and it would be a modern, coated lens. I have a 4"x4" Wisner lens board that should accept the Copal shutter.

Other than resetting the infinity stops, are there any modifications? Would the Nikkor rear element clear the ground glass with bellows closed, or would I need to remove the lens after each use?

My current lens, a 135 mm f4.5 Tessar, is uncoated, but still a good lens. It has X-sync retro-added in such a way that the cable release is still functional.

Other than a coated lens, what would I gain by going to the Nikkor, at least for color shots? Is the Nikkor any "sharper?"

Dave · Joined: 05 Dec 2003 Posts: 78 Location: Canada

Modern Nikkor-W is a so-called plasmat design like a Symmar, if I ain't mistaken, which means
(i) it has considerably better resolution in the corners than your Tessar
(ii) it has a much bigger image circle, so you can use whatever movement your Speed allows
(iii) it is more contrasty, but this is because it's coated.

I have a 1960-era convertible 105mm Symmar and a 1938 uncoated 105mm Zeiss Tessar. You can see a big difference in contrast even on the ground glass. At f/8, the two lenses seem to have comparable 'sharpness', but at f/11 and beyond, the Symmar wins.

t.r.sanford · Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 1:10 am Post subject:

This may be a good place to inquire: what the heck is a "plasmat"?

I recall seeing, and reading about, prewar Meyer-Optik lenses called "Satz-Plasmat," "Kino-Plasmat" and so forth, and I always supposed it to be a name proprietary to the Meyer concern, as "Sonnar" is to Zeiss.

None of my reference works mentions "plasmat" as a design description, and the usage seems to have emerged in the past decade or so. Does Wisner have something to do with this?

45PSS · Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 2:05 am Post subject:

Plasmat is a lens design type. It is a 6 element in two group with air spaced elements. Reference The lens Vade Mecum.

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The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.

Dave · Joined: 05 Dec 2003 Posts: 78 Location: Canada

More than you ever wanted to know about plasmats here.

t.r.sanford · Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 4:29 am Post subject:

Very interesting! In short, something you might arrive at by air-spacing the two interior elements of a "Dagor," something like the "Orthometar" of happy memory and astronomical price?

suburban grafic · Joined: 01 Feb 2004 Posts: 19 Location: Arizona

Perhaps there are a bit of innocent, albeit enthusiastic, replies to his original question. To make a short answer long, I think I am safe in saying that any 135mm lens will focus correctly on any camera that uses a rangefinder system and has an appropriate cam for a 135 lens. Rangefinder focusing does not equate covering power. It only has to do with distance. What I found strange in most of the replies to the question, were a seemingly endless offering of opinions about Plasmats, Plasmistats, Dr. Dumfuddles's anticoncentric designs and a lot of unrelated innuendo about Dagmar and her litter of puppies.

Life is short, so relax before you start blasting your keyboard with 2000 degrees of pocket flamethrower.

In answer to the poster's original question, I have a 135 Nikky that I use on my Crown and it closes up with the lens mounted. I do know that the rangefinder doesn't know if the 135 it is focusing is a Pismat or a Dogmat. Huh?

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Dave · Joined: 05 Dec 2003 Posts: 78 Location: Canada

Read the original post. Joe asked if the Nikkor-W has any advantages over a Tessar. We answered him.

t.r.sanford · Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 3:08 pm Post subject:

You touch on an interesting point. The initial question didn't raise the rangefinder coupling issue, but it ought to be kept in mind.

The "Tessar" almost certainly differs in effective focal length from the "Nikkor" and, if the RF was calibrated for the "Tessar," it would be worth making sure it's still synchronized to the newer lens.

I've not seen figures on the rangefinder's tolerance for this deviation, but the old Graflex service organization emphasized the importance of adjusting the RF for the specific lens being installed.

t.r.sanford · Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 3:10 pm Post subject:

...Dr. Dumfuddle! That's it! I knew that I eventually would find out who calculated the Ludwig "Meritar"...

Dan Fromm · Joined: 14 May 2001 Posts: 2144 Location: New Jersey

t.r.sanford · Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 4:37 pm Post subject:

Frankly, my thought had been that the effective focal length likely is different from the nominal one marked on the lens, and it would be advisable to check the rangefinder coupling (cam or otherwise).

But you're certainly right: the geometry of the lens cells and shutter probably are different, so the infinity focus position of the new lens would need to be established (and infinity stops moved, if necessary).

One would want to do that before addressing the rangefinder issue, of course.

Dave · Joined: 05 Dec 2003 Posts: 78 Location: Canada

Dan's point about flange focal distance being a different animal from focal length is well taken.

I bet ya a dollar the flange focal distance (lensboard to film) is greater for the Tessar, because most of the lens is in front of the board. So with the Nikkor, you'd probably have to pull the infinity stops back a few mm.

The other thing is coupling the rangefinder-- there might be a few mm difference in FL between the two lenses, but the Anny Speed has an adjustable Kalart, yes? Maybe the early version?

I bet the 135 Nikkor will be a great choice if you're working from a tripod, or with flash. If you work handheld in limited light, it might not be so good, but in that case you can sell your car and find a 135 Planar.

Joe Koski · Joined: 09 Feb 2004 Posts: 39 Location: Southwest USA

Having recently recalibrated my Kalart F model rangefinder (thanks to the procedures provided on the site), I have a good idea of what is involved. The arm that swings during the focus process rides on an eccentric cam that is mounted to the rear of the bellows support rack. No interchangeable cam like the newer Graphics is involved. Changing the infinity stops would not change the rangefinder calibration in any way. I presume if the 135 mm focal lengths are close enough to each other, then the calibration may be acceptable. Otherwise, I get to perfect my rangefinder calibration techniques (again).

My major concern is the rear element clearance to the ground glass with the bellows compressed. It has a Graflok back, so I could either remove the lens or the ground glass for strorage, if necessary. I had hoped somebody had already done this experiment.

Thanks for all the inputs. I'll let you know how it works when I get things working. I haven't ordered the lens yet.

45PSS · Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 7:52 pm Post subject:

Joe,
The top rf graflex is a different system from the side kalart or hugo myer. The only calibration on the top rf is the infinity setting. With any cam in the camera, the yoke(rails) run fully in the case then out 1/8 inch, the rf should be in focus at infinity. Do Not change anything unless its off. Special tools(cam) no longer available are required.
One would have to conduct some test to determine how much an optically tested to 137 would fare with a cam cut for a 134 or the reverse.
Charles

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The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.