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shutter realease thread repair?
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought this might fit in this forum and am hoping someone knows the answer?

I finally have come up with a lens that has a not-so-good cable release socket. Not my week for screw threads

Does anyone have any idea what designation these threads may be? I've done a few net searches and come up completely blank. They're obviously no standard thread, unless it's some old oddball I've never seen other than cable releases...

Is there any tool avaiable anywhere that could rethread these sockets? There must be something someplace as these things must get stripped occasionally.

And help would be greatly appreciated, as usual


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Nick



Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 494

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually spent some time looking into standards awhile back for a camera. What I found out is basically two standards exist. The US Kodak [acually I think it predates Kodak's use] standard and a European standard. One is tapered. The other isn't.

There is a little device designed to be used with older cameras that had external threads. Go to the B&H website and search for General Brand Cable Adapter for Nikon/Leica . Maybe you can stick that on the shutter?
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, but I don't think that adapter would work in this situation. It's a wide lens in a tight fitting recessed lens board. Barely enough room for the cable tip itself...

You're right about the standards. Of course, after I post I find part of the answer I knew I bought that "worthless" "Photo Technology Data Book" for some odd reason. Now I remember why!

The tapered release is the Euro standard The screw is 0.125 long; 0.156 diameter; with a taper of 14 degrees (or 28 for both sides, not sure which would be correct?). Thread pitch is 50 tpi.

So, if no repair tool (tap) exists, anyone know who could make one?


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t.r.sanford



Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 812
Location: East Coast (Long Island)

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might want to examine the existing socket carefully, and see how it attaches to the shutter case.

The older dial-set "Compur" shutters featured a protruding cylinder that seems to have been designed something like a hollow rivet, with a reduced diameter at the bottom. This apparently was simply inserted through a hole in the case of the shutter, and flared at the bottom, where it protruded into the case.

It seems possible that a socket of this sort could be replaced in one of several ways. There's a fastener on the market called a "Thin Sheet Nut-Sert" (or it was in its first iteration), which resembles a pop rivet but is threaded to receive a bolt. If you could find one that would mate with a cable release -- or a smaller one that could be gently drilled out and tapped to mate with a cable release -- you'be be all set.

Alternatively, in the "Compur" shutter I examined, there's ample clearance inside the case to permit forming a narrow strip of brass, perhaps 3/32 in. thick, to lie snugly along the interior circumference and not interfere with anything. You might drill a hole in the center of such a strip and tap it to receive a cable release, then line it up under the hole where the damaged socket had been. You might then mount it to the case with two tiny bolts of the #0-80 or #1-72 variety passing through the case from the outside and threaded into two tiny tapped holes, one at each end.

Many years ago, I made a cable release socket like this to activate a crude homemade studio shutter. The shutter itself was, at best, a qualified success, but the cable release socket worked fine, even with those annoying tapered tips!
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Rangemaster



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 412
Location: Montana, Glacier National Park

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich,

I have a tap around here somewhere, I just can't figure out which box or drawer in the tool box it is in......but they do make one, cause I had to repair the very thing your trying to do right now...let me see what I can dig up..

Dave
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TR, your suggestions are good ones, but they all rely on that one single missing item; the repair tap...

And Dave, if yo've got one, then obviously they must have been made. Well, double obviously because there's so many sockets around...

Now if we could just locate a source for them... And I wouldn't mind picking up a used one But seriously, if we could locate a source for the tap it would benefit a lot of people I would think...
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Nick



Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 494

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm using duct tape on one camera-) Doesn't duct tape fix everything-))
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t.r.sanford



Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 812
Location: East Coast (Long Island)

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't necessarily have to match the thread pitch exactly, as long as the cable release tip will stop smoothly after 2/3 or 3/4 of a turn, will hold securely without being forced, and will back out cleanly when you want it to.

I forget what I used in those dear, dead days gone by, but it was something like a #4-48 tap in a hole of suitable diameter. It worked fine with the tapered cable release tips common for the past half-century, though a purist would regard it as a kludge.
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are of course many ways to make a temporary fix. Tape, glue, etc...

I asked for two reasons. One, to make permanent true repairs now and in the future. And two: because I'll use any possible excuse imaginable to find & buy a new tool!!!

A quite viable alternative fix dould be to tap a thin _flat_ plate. I have such a plate as a factory addition on one of my GVII lens boards. A flat plate could be used as a scre-on like that factory model, or cut to size and glued in front of the original hole.

I could measure that factory hole, but I would guess that a #6 tap would be about the right diameter. The .156 maximum diameter of the spec is between a #6 and #8. I believe a metric M4? But you want the thread to stop before it hits the end, so a #6-40 or #5-44 (if you could find one?) would work fine as a guess. The closest to thread pitch would be a #4-48 so you might be right, but the hole might be a bit small at 0.112? Would be easy to test though... But I doubt there would be any way to use a standarrd tap in the tapered original hole?

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t.r.sanford



Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 812
Location: East Coast (Long Island)

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right, my kludge was drilled through a piece of brass strip, .040 or .064 gauge if I recall correctly.

Indeed, I don't see how one could tap a tapering hole with the usual plug or bottom tap. But the nice thing about the tapered tip of a cable release is that it gives you some latitude in choosing the diameter of hole you want to drill and thread.

If anyone finds a source for a tap that's designed for cable release sockets, I too would be keen to buy one.
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it difficult to believe that this tap can not be purchased someplace? I would have thought every camera repair person in the world would own a few?

On top of that, I've done an exhaustive search for a custom tap maker... Not much luck there either! I did find ONE company that offered custom taps and I've sent off an e-mail to them. I hate to imagine what a custom tap would cost, but maybe we'll find out? I also asked if it would be effectively cheaper to have many made on a cost per unit basis. It may pay to have them made and sell them off to other people who restore old cameras and shutters? But we'll see if they will do it and whether or not I can afford to have it done...

I also don't know why it's always the simplest little common things that can hang up the best of projects (still waiting for my 1/4-20 thread inserts...)
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Nick



Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 494

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got to say if it would convert my old camera to a standard thread I'd be interested. I am curious how it's possible. If the hole is already the right size then won't putting in a new tap make it too big?

BTW I know what you mean about waiting for things. I ordered a scale last month. It's still not here. I've got chemicals and film all ready but no way to way them-((( Grumble grumble.
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes & no. If you're fixing an original tapered hole, then the result would be just going a bit deper into the taper. It's half the diameter down at the bottom, so you would open it up just a thread. The cable release screw would wind up one thread deeper into the socket.

If you have a flat piece, then it couldn't be re-tapped...

Scales are easy. Just visit a local antique shop. I bought one locally from an ex-pharmacist. Has to be 80 years old or more and works perfectly. Although he didn't have the weights so I had to order a new weight set. But now I can measure in ounces or grams. And it needs no batteries!


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worldphoto



Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 199
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich
First, I have no way to rethread your socket but is there a chance that the threads aren't stripped? I can't even see the threads on my No. 3 Kodak Supermatic shutter, the cable release threads in it and it works fine. It also works great on my Syncho-Compur-P shutter.
I do use a 45 degree adapter for recessed lens boards that is made by Hasselblad (Sweden) #50776. It allows me to remove the cable release from the shutter/adapter when I move the camera. I have the fat finger syndrome. My cable release will catch on ANYTHING!!! The Hasselblad does have a tapered thread so it may work for you.
Harry

[ This Message was edited by: worldphoto on 2004-05-28 12:48 ]

[ This Message was edited by: worldphoto on 2004-06-02 06:36 ]
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glennfromwy



Joined: 29 Nov 2001
Posts: 903
Location: S.W. Wyoming

PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2004 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you called S.K. Grimes and asked about this? I'm sure they would know how you can fix it.

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"Wyoming - Where everybody is somebody else's weirdo"
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