Graflex.org

[billh101]

Help! There is too much information to digest here, so I'm just going to post my specific question. I want to try large format and was thinking of getting a Crown Graphic 4x5 (or similar). As far as the lens and coverage, I see a lot ******* with the Ektar 127, but I've read that you are limited to little or no movements with that lens. Is there an inexpensive starter lens that would allow me to play with the movements on a Graphic? I like to shoot landscape, so I'd prefer something on the wider side. I'm also thinking of getting a Polaroid back and using that to learn so I don't have to deal with developing the film yet. I would appreciate any advice/insight you can provide me before I jump in and buy a camera. Thanks! Bill

[Dan Fromm]

[t.r.sanford]

The 127mm. and 135mm. lenses commonly supplied with "Graphic" press cameras were used, nearly always, by people who prized their fairly wide field for handheld fast framing, often under stressful conditions.

You really can't shift either focal length around very much with the camera focused at infinity. You certainly can get respectable perspective correction when working in close, e.g. compensating for the apparent convergence of verticals when photographing a small product package from slightly above. The image circle, of course, widens as you rack the lens away from the film.

For what you want to do, you might look for a lens in the 7 to 8-in. range; there tend to be a lot of 180mm. "Velostigmats" and "Tessars," 190mm. "Optars" and the like around, often in simple ("Alphax") or archaic ("Compur" dial-set) shutters, at attractive prices. These have come to be regarded as long for the 4X5 format, but it's helpful to keep in mind that the "normal" lens for 35mm. format is 44mm. or thereabouts. A 180mm. lens on a 4x5 camera acts very much like the classic 55- or 58mm. lenses on a 35mm. camera.

In my experience, these are very good lenses, and they will give you an ample image circle for the movements that a "Pacemaker" front can make.

A particularly good choice, if you don't mind a rather faint groundglass image, is the 203mm. f:7.7 "Ektar."

If you need to combine a wide field with a large image circle, you probably will have to spend some money!

[RichS]

Unless you want to either wait for years for a camera and lens combo that you actually want, buy what you can find...

The other alternative is to buy a body without a lens and then also buy the lens that you want. Problem there is that a lensless body isn't usually any cheaper...

There's nothing wrong with the 127's and 135's that are usually found on Crowns. Both will give you good photos and allow you to learn the camera. Worry more about condition!

I think the 135 is supposed to have a bit more coverage if you want movements, and it's a nice focal length. slightly wider than 'normal'. And you might be suprised at what 'normal' is in 4x5. It seems wider than smaller formats...

My suggestion is to simply find a camera with lens in good working condition with 127 or 135 lens. Most people prefer a camera with the Graflok back and it's nice to have. Not all Crown/Speeds have them! Get a 545i Polaroid holder for it and some Type 55 film. That way you have the capability of both print and negative.

While you're learning to use your camera, read about lenses. Many of us are very happy adding the 90mm Optar lens that was an option for these cameras. They perform quite well and are small & light. Great for landscape work and a good combo with the 135. If you really like wide, you can also go into 75 and even 65mm lenses, but the 90 will still be a good compliment to the kit...

I was in a similar postion when I first got into 4x5. Wound up with a very nice Pacemaker Speed. I bought the 90, then a 75 and then a 65. The 65 is wiiiiiide! But nice for sweeping landscapes or trying to grab an entire room interior...

[troublemaker]

I would think the starter lens will be the one that comes on the camera you decide to get. Depending on the particular age and care of the lens you decide on, it may be an excellnt performer, or cause you imediate grief due to a sluggish shutter or who knows what? I have found that what may be considered a starter lens by some is just as much a finisher for others.
One does not have to use the entire 4x5" image area. Keep this in mind, as you can crop as small as you want and do not ever have to use the full frame, in fact it is probably good to shoot a little "loose" as they say. Also, no one says you can't use a 127 with movements, but you may not be able to use the whole 4x5 frame. One can put a 120 roll film holder on a Graflok back and make all the movement they want. But it is not a view camera, and has its limits, so think creatively.
As far as lens length, it is hard to suggest what will work best for someone else. It depends very much on what you like and how you intend to shoot the camera,hand held, supported for landscapes, or in studio portrature etc...
However, even though there seems to be a lot of info here, sift through a lot of it, take note of many of the questions and problems people are finding with new aquisitions. You will also find a lot of answers to questions you didn't know you neededd to ask, like how to clean the camera or stuff like that. Personally I like to tear things apart and fix them, reading the instructions later, but that's just me. There are some opperation manuals and service related guides on this and other sites also. But being a learn by doing sort, I think there is nothing like having the camera in hand, and some of the worst junk I have received has been able to make good or interesting images on film.
Definately look for a camera that is complete, and hopefully in good working order if not so mechanically inclined.
regards,
Stephen