Graflex.org

[Simon White]

G'day all.

I have been browsing here for a while and am in the process of buying a Crown 4x5 from a member here. My question is one of fitting a 75mm Nikkor to the Crown Graphic.

* - Am I able to fit this lens to the CG?

* - At f16 this lens gives a 200mm image circle - is this enough to cover 4x5?

* - Would I get zero movements from this lens?

* - Anybody else out there with a 75mm on a Crown 4x5?

* - What is the situation regarding lens boards for this lens? What do I need?

Forgive my ignorance as I am very new to LF and Crowns.

Best regards, Simon.

[RichS]

Simon,

I unfortunately do not own a Nikkor 75mm... But I can offer some dimensions to help.

The opening in the front standar for the rear lens cell is approx. 75mm. So the lens must be smaller in diameter than this to fit inside the camera.

With the camera closed, there's approx 40mm from the lens board to the GG, so the lens can't be longer than that when it's mounted, if you want to keep the lens on the camera.

There may be about 45mm from the lens board to the front case when closed. And the front cell would have to be smaller than the 62mm width of the focusing rails if it goes that far out...

You would have no problems using a 75mm lens on the Crown.

I have no idea what you mean by "Would I get zero movements from this lens?" Most 75's have large image circles for plenty of movement. You state 200mm. The 4x5 is approx 155mm (don't have time for the math), so you could move at least 45mm. And image circles are usually stated on the conservative side...

As far as the lens board, that depends on the shutter. You simply need a "Pacemaker" lens board that is cut to the proper hole. Midwest probably has one in stock as any Nikkor should be mounted in a modern shutter.

The real problem is that there are quite a few Nikkor 75mm's out there and they vary quite a bit in dimensions. You didn't say which one you are interested in. As far as I know, they should all fit. Whether or not you could close the camera with it mounted is something else...


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"Ya just can't have too many GVIIs"
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[Nick]

Info on Nikon LF seems a little more plentiful then hens teeth. Not much but a little.

This is the only place I know of with English language info. For all I know it's the only info out there unless you want to scour dealer websites. No idea if it's up to date.

http://homepages.tig.com.au/~cbird/nikkor/sw.html#SW75

#0 shutter. Flange distance of 81.3mm.

[Dan Fromm]

[Simon White]

G'day Rich.

Great info mate, bear with me as I go through your reply.

Here are the specs on the Nikkor SW f4.5 75mm I am currently interested in, I assume these are the same for all the Nikkor SW f4.5 75's?

*Model Nikkor-SW 75mm f4.5s
*Focal Length 75mm Maximum Aperture Ratio 1 : 4.5
*Minimum Aperture f/45
*Lens Construction 7 elements in 4 groups *Covering Power (f/4.5) 80 degrees
*Covering Power (f/16) 106 degrees
*Image Circle (f/4.5) 126m
*Image Circle (f/16) 200mm
*Shutter No.0 (Copal)
*Shutter speed 1 - 1/500sec., T,B
*Sync socket X-contact
*Front mount size (A) 70mm
*Attachment size (B) 67mm x 0.75mm
*Rear mount size (C) 60mm
*Flange attachment size (D) 32.5mm x 0.5mm *Flange focal distance (E) 81.3mm
*Overall length (F) 73.5mm Weight 420g

I hope that covers it.

With the camera closed, there's approx 40mm from the lens board to the GG, so the lens can't be longer than that when it's mounted, if you want to keep the lens on the camera.

I don't mind removing the lens if I have to.

There may be about 45mm from the lens board to the front case when closed. And the front cell would have to be smaller than the 62mm width of the focusing rails if it goes that far out...

O.k, gotcha.

You would have no problems using a 75mm lens on the Crown.

Great!

I have no idea what you mean by "Would I get zero movements from this lens?" Most 75's have large image circles for plenty of movement. You state 200mm. The 4x5 is approx 155mm (don't have time for the math), so you could move at least 45mm. And image circles are usually stated on the conservative side...

Sorry, I was trying to make sure the lens had enough coverage for 4x5... as I said I am still very new to the LF method of doing things.

As far as the lens board, that depends on the shutter. You simply need a "Pacemaker" lens board that is cut to the proper hole. Midwest probably has one in stock as any Nikkor should be mounted in a modern shutter.

It's a O Copal, perhaps I'll mention it to Jim at Midwest.

The real problem is that there are quite a few Nikkor 75mm's out there and they vary quite a bit in dimensions.

I didn't realize they were all of differing dimensions... hmmmm.

[Simon White]

G'day Nick..

Thanks mate, I already found the Cbird site and you are totally correct, this is the only *real* info out there. Nikon don't seem too interested in talking about their LF lenses.

G'day Dan!

Thanks for chipping in, I'm going to need help getting my head around the possibilities.

[Nick]

If you're just starting out are you really sure you want a 75mm? That's fairly wide for 4x5. Obviously they aren't that cheap either but I guess you know that. If it was me I'd consider a 150mm first. Later you can always add the expensive 75mm. But then I'd consider the 90mm F/8. You lose a stop + in speed but outdoors F/8 isn't bad.

[ This Message was edited by: Nick on 2004-08-11 11:41 ]

[RichS]

Well, from those dimensions, I would think it would just fit...

With:
*Front mount size (A) 70mm
*Attachment size (B) 67mm x 0.75mm
*Rear mount size (C) 60mm
*Flange attachment size (D) 32.5mm x 0.5mm *Flange focal distance (E) 81.3mm
*Overall length (F) 73.5mm Weight 420g

I'm guessing the "Rear mount" is the diameter of the rear cell. 60mm will easily fit into the front standard.
Since it is also a standard #0 mounting hole, Midwest will have a lens board for it, probably in stock.
And there's even a chance it would fit with the camera closed, but that 70mm front cell may get in the way?

My guess is that ot would fit, and deffinitely be a great lens on a Crown! What's better than a Nikkor SW??

And Dan, I've heard about screwing the rear cell through the bellows into the shutter, but it's something I sure don't want to do


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"Ya just can't have too many GVIIs"
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[Simon White]

Hey Nick,

I might be new to LF but I am not new to 35mm and Medium Format photography. I shoot Landscapes on a semi-pro basis at this stage and want to move up to LF for the quality and large neg/tranny size. 99% of everything I shoot in the other formats is the equivalent of 24mm in 35mm format. I love this angle of view and it is very much in keeping with the style of my work.

I am not buying a 75mm blindly, I understand the lens is an investment but I am also buying 2nd hand to take the edge off. I was looking at a 90mm but this is more like a 28mm in 35mm format and thats a little too tame for my personal requirements. The Crown that I am buying already has the 135mm f4.7 Optar on it so I am covered for a slightly longer focal length.

So I assume that the 75mm will give ample coverage for 4x5 format, yes?



[ This Message was edited by: Simon White on 2004-08-11 11:50 ]

[Simon White]

Hey Rich!

My guess is that ot would fit, and deffinitely be a great lens on a Crown! What's better than a Nikkor SW??

I agree, thats exactly why I want one. Landscape Photographer Joe Cornish uses the same lens and gets stunning images. I was also told that before Jack Dykinga was being sponsored by Shneider that he was shooting Nikkors and he loved the 3 dimensional quality of the images he got with it.

This is my, invest in one killer lens, and then work up from there, approach. I'm sure it will break my bank for a while but the images and the Crown will make up for that I'm sure.

[Nick]

[RichS]

I would agree that the 75 would be a killer And to my calcs, it's about equal to a 21.5 lens on a 35mm with an 80 degree angle of view. Although I calc using the long dimension of films, not the diagonal! Noone shoots diagonally, or very often anyway I have a spreadsheet on my site that does lens equivilents for such a thing...

The other thing to consider is the size of the film in a different regard. And I'm not sure how to explain it either?

I routinely shoot with as much as a 17mm on my 35mm camera. I like wide angle and went through a lot of pestering people about wide lenses for 4x5 and 8x10. Now a 17mm is about equal to a 60mm on 4x5 and 120mm for the 8x10.

I couldn't get that for 4x5 but did get a 65mm SA. I also bought a Nikkor 120 SW for the 8x10. I was sure I'd use these lenses a lot which is obvious for me to spend the kind of money the 120SW goes for. I don't usually spend like that on a lens...

Well, they don't get used much... Seems the larger formats just see wider... Like I said, hard to explain. The wide lenses I like and use more are the 90mm on 4x5 and 240 on 8x10. And the last time I went out, I shot only with the 12inch "normal" lens on the 8x10. never took a wide out of the bag...

Now I don't want to change your mind about the 75mm. Overall, I would think it's the best 4x5 wide lens for outdoor use. I always want something wider than my 90, but not a 65... I do have a 75 Sa for the GVII, but that rarely leaves the house. I really should remount that on a Pacemaker board so I can use it!

But if you really like "wide", then grab the 75. If you're not sure, than shoot with the 135 a bit to see what it looks like first. Then maybe rent a 75 and a 90 to see which one you really like best. The Nikkor SW also comes in 90! Or, just grab whichever one comes up first at auction and hope for the best

I really doubt you'll be sorry you bought it and since you're buying used, you could deffinitely get your money back if you decide to get rid of it... And like my 65 and 120, when you need wide, there's nothing else that can make up for it!

[Simon White]

Hey Nick.

A couple of things. 4x5 is a different shape then 35mm. It's closer to a square format. That will change how it looks.

Thats a pertinent point that I am still getting my head around. Ofcourse allot of LF photographers crop do they not? I am loathed to crop personally but does the format shape really effect the angle of view to that great a degree, or is it more our perception?

Second thing the diagonal for 4x5 is 162mm. The diagonal of 35mm is 43mm. So using those then a 75mm is equal to about 20mm. The 90mm about 24mm. But that ignores the difference in shape.

I have seen it stated at other websites that 75mm = 24mm and 90mm = 28mm, this gets contradicted online quite often...which is it?

Does it have enough coverage? Depends. It should be more then enough for landscape use. But I'm not sure for some of the more demanding uses.

Well I'm not shooting Architecture....yet.

But [always a but-)] how much movement does the crown have? No use worrying if the camera can only move so much.

Well I know the Crown has very little movement anyway. It's nice to know though that if you do use a little movement with the lens that you wont get vignetting.

[Simon White]

Hey Rich.

The other thing to consider is the size of the film in a different regard. And I'm not sure how to explain it either?

Well as I said to Nick above, is this a real difference in terms of how a wide shot looks on film for any given focal length, or is this more an issue of film format perception? What I mean is this; say I shot an image with a 24mm lens on 35mm format film and then cropped for the square look of 4x5, would the 35mm image look the same as the 4x5 shot with a 24mm equivalent, or different?

Basically I just want to be the approximate angle of view to 24mm in 35 format.

Well, they don't get used much... Seems the larger formats just see wider... Like I said, hard to explain. The wide lenses I like and use more are the 90mm on 4x5 and 240 on 8x10. And the last time I went out, I shot only with the 12inch "normal" lens on the 8x10. never took a wide out of the bag...

Well like I said the Crown will come with the 135mm Optar so I will have the benefit of the longer focal length should I need it. I might be mistaken but I think 135mm is = to about 40mm in 35mm format. So do you think for the 24mm *look* I'd be better off with a 90mm Rich?

The Nikkor SW also comes in 90! Or, just grab whichever one comes up first at auction and hope for the best

I was going for the Nikkor 90 first actually and then came across data that said this lens was more like a 28 and the 75 = to 24mm. I am now in two minds as to which will be more accurate. I don't want to go wider than 24mm in the look of the shots and so 75 may just be too wide if it's closer to 21mm.

I really doubt you'll be sorry you bought it and since you're buying used, you could deffinitely get your money back if you decide to get rid of it... And like my 65 and 120, when you need wide, there's nothing else that can make up for it!

Oh, I know I'll be happy once I grab one of the two Nikkors... WHICH ONE!!!

[Nick]

I think you said you said you shoot MF to. Which format? Think of 4x5 like 6x7. If you have a lens in 6x7 you like multiply by 2.

I print all my stuff so I crop everything on the easel. For colour work it's not that unusual to have a colour card off to one side of a photo to make it easier to print. You'd have problems doing that with 35mm but with 4x5 you've got a big enough negative. Not something you could do easily with landscape work but possible for other things. OTOH others shoot bigger formats and only contact print. So no cropping at all.


The reason you'll find different tables comparing 4x5 lens to 35mm is how do you compare? The simple thing is the diagonal. Some don't like that. They use the long side of the negative. Some just use a rule of thumb and don't worry about exact numbers.

Let me put it this way. 135mm to 210mm are all considered "normal" lenses for 4x5. The 135mm is just a touch wide. The 210mm longish. But they're all considered normal.