Graflex.org

45PSS · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 2:48 am Post subject:

On the serious side,
I recently recieved an ILEX PARAGON with variable front element in an Ilex #5 shutter that fired at the same speed above 1/2 second setting and very slow when set lower.
The shutter has the Rubberized shuter leaf and apeture blades. As I disassembled it I used my FUJI finepix to record the assembly assembled. I also recorded each sub assembly and the after removal.
I used 70% Isopropyl Alcohol and a clean cotton cloth to clean the shutter blades and CRC Electronic Contact Cleaner to clean the shutter body. I did not remove the apeture blades and did dry them off with the alochol and cotton cloth after flushing the shutter body.
Upon reassembly I made a lens board for my Eastman Commercial and mounted the lens. A polaroid test and a couple of 8x10 negs say that the shutter now fires correctly.
Can't wait for the rain to stop and the sun to come out.
Charles

_________________
While a picture may be worth a thousand words, a quality photograph is worth a million.

[ This Message was edited by: 45PSS on 2003-12-10 09:50 ]

Henry · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 4:52 pm Post subject:

You mean beer doesn't dissolve old lubricant? Damn! Anyway, I like the part about the six-pack in the shade, but before you use vast quantities of Ronsonol just try squirting some into all the shutter openings, front and back, after you've removed the lens elements. I never actually soaked my shutters, in the sense of submerging them, because the squirt method worked fine for me.

I hear that Ronsonol in tomato juice makes a heck of a Bloody Mary, but go easy on the Tabasco, you don't want to start a fire.

Henry

clnfrd · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 10:30 pm Post subject:

I, too, would like to endorse 45PSS's approach to the Ronsonol soak. And, what the heck...if the soak doesn't fix the problem...after a six-pack of brewskies...WHO CARES?? It pays to have extra shutters anyway. Fred.

[ This Message was edited by: clnfrd on 2003-12-10 14:31 ]

disemjg · Joined: 10 Jan 2002 Posts: 474 Location: Washington, DC

A few sqirts of Ronsonal in the right place always seem to bring back a shutter; I never had to actuall dip one. Is a copy of the Graphix or Wollensak shutter repair manual available out there somewhere? I have always avoided going too deeply into these things, but having the reference would sure be a help if I had to. Generally I would send a really sick shutter to a pro, but technicians are starting to be harder to find and being able to do it yourself may be the only option one of these days.

troublemaker · Joined: 24 Nov 2003 Posts: 715 Location: So Cal

OK, since i do not drink, can i still try using a little Ronsonol? Today i was using two Mapgas torches and a big hammer at work. If I drink six beers, this method of corrosion persuasion that we use on old aluminum parts fused together may begin to render a distink possibility in the realm of sticky shutters. Picture a drunk medium format novice, with a bad attitude, with naptha, map gas, a big hammer and two old supermatic shutters on a darl winter night...
ok, well, on the serious side:
The early 40's shutters look like the shutter blades are plastic? is this correct. And will the naptha harm them, or will it evaporate easily enough if i do get it on them? i am not going to attempt a dissassembly because it is not straight forwrd enough that i could do it without following along with a picture breakdown.
Also, i had thought a littel can of compressed air might help to blow them out, but hate the idea of buying air in a can.
steve

45PSS · Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 2:59 am Post subject:

disemjg,
I got my copy of the Graflex Shutter repair manual at http://www.craigcamera.com/ ;high quality reprints and some origionals.

troublemaker,
The possibality of plastic is the main reason I use Electrical Contact Cleaner, safe on plastics! To lubericate, I use Luberplate or white lithium grease when grease is called for, and I use Tri Flow, a light weight machine oil with teflon made for fine/precision mechanisms. To apply the grease: apply a thin layer with a toothpick or simular spreading it out then wipe the surface with a clean cotton cloth so that only a thin film remains.(sometimes I just put a little grease on the cloth and spread it out). To use the oil, put a drop about the size of a straight pin point on the piviot point, wipe excess with a clean cotton cloth.

Most shutters only require the removal of the front cover and timing plate. The cover is held on by a few small screws or a locking cam then the timing plate lifts off. Shutter should not be cocked and should be in the B or T speed setting. Upon reassembly slight turning of the timing ring may be necessary to get all of the gear levers and pins back into their slots, not hard to do. Those little screws tend to be the hardest part.

Chalres

_________________
While a picture may be worth a thousand words, a quality photograph is worth a million.

[ This Message was edited by: 45PSS on 2003-12-10 20:06 ]

troublemaker · Joined: 24 Nov 2003 Posts: 715 Location: So Cal

Ok, I took out my worst shutters, and gave them the "Ronsonol Squirt", lit them, and never half to worry about them ever again, nor will i have to shave for a while !!

No, just a couple squirts got one shutter appearing to be firing near correctly as i can tell. The other one, another old no.2 Supermatic, seems to be better, however 1/10 seems to be about the same speed, or very nearly so as compared to my verified good lenses. The good 105mm glass in the worst shutter mounts right on the shutter that works and came with scratchy hazy 127mm Ektar glass, so i have at least have one useable unit witha a combined expense of about $65.00 and five minutes of labor, and $3.00 for a still very full bottel of naptha. I will proceed tomorrow to give one of them a test in a full soak and agitate out under the tree provided nothing wierd happens to the shutter blades overnight.
then all i can do is run some test exposures. i know the better shutter was a littel slow since i had compared it on a roll with a clean firing Trioptar that has worked at every speed very well. So far, most advice here has worked rather well, but i am not too pleased with the neatsfoot oil recomended for bellows on another string of posts. Smells like the 20/50 racng oil i run in my 1914cc Bus, and habdles very much like 20wt motor oil. I think it will be relagated to leather softening duties... but that's another post.

Have a good day...
steve

troublemaker · Joined: 24 Nov 2003 Posts: 715 Location: So Cal

Adendum to the above post by me. where I mentioned one shutter is better I meant it is working a littel better, and 1/10 fires at the same speed as 1/25, but otherwise may be working. This one gets a bath minana...

Henry · Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 2:41 pm Post subject:

Another source for the Graphex (Wollensak) shutter service manual is http://www.photobooksonline.com/books/manual03SHU.html . I own this, and it was quite handy when I did a "level one" tear-down of my Graphex no. 1 shutters to revive the synchronizers.

P.S. Save the beer, etc., for *after* the tear-down!

Henry

[ This Message was edited by: Henry on 2003-12-11 06:42 ]

glennfromwy · Joined: 29 Nov 2001 Posts: 903 Location: S.W. Wyoming

I have found that SuperMatic shutters have a bad habit of being way off on the 1/10th setting, when all other speeds are ok. This is not something that a clean and lube will help. It's easy enough to work around that speed, though, so I don't worry about it. About fiber shutter blades -- probably made during the war years when metal was not available. I have cleaned these with contact cleaner but you are taking a risk. These blades also warp and wrinkle with age, just like me. If thats the case, it will never work right. Just like me, also.
I use a spray contact ceaner with silicon lube in it. I don't worry about oil. The stuff dries and leaves the dry silicon behind. Works very well. I get it from All Electronics.com. It has a little tube you can put on and most of the time all that's necessary is to remove the cells and squirt the guts. A little bit does it.

_________________
Glenn

"Wyoming - Where everybody is somebody else's weirdo"

troublemaker · Joined: 24 Nov 2003 Posts: 715 Location: So Cal

Triflo applied on the tip of mini screwdriver seemed to work well on my bad supermatic, and it does arreap now that only 1/10 is too fast, and perhaps 1/5 a littel slow, but otherwise ok. the better shutter is now the worse and is not functioning, but think stuff got into the shutter blade mchanism. will resoak in ronson, and lube later...
i wouldn't recomend silicone, i had to wash it back out. but it may be that it gummed up because of the ronson residue. when i tries electric cleaner that was when the shutter stiffined up, tried to lube with silicone, and went imediately backwards to worse than when i started.
soon i will need a beer...
p.s. i am using an old lens cloth to wipe the visible residue form the blades and this soft cloth seems to pick up the lint and particles, but i am thinking the best thing would really be to dissassemble and clean for reals. however, when wetted with ronsonol, both shutters began to work properly for the most part, but i see this only as a patch, and not a solution, for too much residue is left on the blades, and when the units dry, i beleive the speeds will be suspect. testing will be in order.
Pro CLA for my nicer shutter which i think will increses thier value above what i paid for them anyway. i mean, compare to units over a thousand dollars. i can;t justify buying a lens worth more than my vehicle.
one of these is going to get dissassembled soon just for fun and adventure...
steve

troublemaker · Joined: 24 Nov 2003 Posts: 715 Location: So Cal

shutter that was sticking after electric cleaner working better after washing out with ronson and lubing with triflo aas other one, 1/10 works on this one, but blades still a littel stiff closing down all the way at B, 1, and 1/2.
steve

RichS · Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 9:28 pm Post subject:

I did a Naptha soak on a shutter last year and had one minor problem that I haven't seen mentioned, so I will

This shutter came to me in the Winter. It worked perfectly frozen when I unwrapped it. As it warmed up, it started sticking. When finally at room temp, it wouldn't fire at all. So the soak & lube with graphite.

This shutter, after the soak, wouldn't work at all. I almost gave up on it. But it did work when frozen... I looked inside the shutter and saw what looked like cloth (fiber, felt, whatever) as a spacer on both sides of the shutter blades when open. So I thought that maybe this had expanded due to the soak. After 3 days, the shutter almost worked. After a week, it fired fine and up to speed...

Sorry, I don't remember which shutter it was... But if the blades show any signs of wet after moving, let it dry out more!

And as long as the shutter has been cleaned out, there should be no need to wipe the blades. The naptha will leave no residue of it's own. If something is left behind, the shutter needs more cleaning...

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"Ya just can't have too many GVIIs"

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disemjg · Joined: 10 Jan 2002 Posts: 474 Location: Washington, DC

The first URL given for a repair manual (craigcamera.com) did not work; the second one does. Thanks for the source. When cleaning the shutters, I do not let them air dry as a lot of old lube and what not starts moving around and gets on the diaphragm and shutter blades. As I work the shutter to loosen things up I use small scraps of paper towel to blot up the ronsonal and old lube from the shutter and diaphragm blades; sometimes this takes a while. I use tweezers to wipe them down, but be careful not to poke the blades with the tweezers, just wipe with the tuft of paper towel. As the shutter begins to dry, dampen the paper towel bits with more ronsonol to lift off the last of the old lube. The blades will wind up clean. A few spots of oil in the right place on the slow speed geartrain with a dip oiler finish the job.

[ This Message was edited by: disemjg on 2003-12-11 16:19 ]

45PSS · Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2003 12:37 am Post subject:

Craig camera link works but not with some personal firewalls enabled, mine included. Clear your browser catch, also before retrying.

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The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.