Graflex.org

Howard · Joined: 21 Sep 2009 Posts: 5 Location: NM

Hi all, new guy here. I have a Crown and the back tends to fall out when no film holder is in place, and the focus screen moves just a bit. Is there any reason to NOT bend the hooks on the body down to correct this? They seem hard as a rock, and I cant see how they got bent upward causing this problem. Is there another fix? Thanks, Howard.
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Howard

Henry · Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:30 pm Post subject:

So I take it you have the Graflok back since there are hooks. I'd have to see a picture to know whether the hooks are indeed bent or distorted. Have you tried using the slides to securely hold the view frame, the same as you must use them to retain the film holder (push them to the left)?

As I see it, there are two cautions in re: bending the hooks. 1) the metal is hardened, i.e., brittle, thus the danger of their breaking off; 2) bending the hooks might exert enough force on the rivets to loosen the whole affair and thus make matters worse.

Howard · Joined: 21 Sep 2009 Posts: 5 Location: NM

Hi Henry, and thanks for the reply. The sliders that hold RFBs, etc. just bump into the side of the back. There are no grooves for them to hold the cast unit. Would it be better to bend the chrome spring arms instead? Or possibly a thicker felt light seal? I'll post pics as soon as I figure out how. Again, thanks.
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Howard

45PSS · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:13 am Post subject:

Read thru the Instruction Manual and/or the service manual pdf page 11/manual page 9 and pdf page 42/manual page 40 then post back what is wrong as best you can if you can't solve the problem using the information in the manuals. (highlighted links; free to download)

I agree with Henry that trying to bend the arms will result in a major problem.

There are many knowledgeable members that can direct you futher.

The first link does not cover the graflok back like I thought it would so try this one: http://www.graflex.org/speed-graphic/features.html#GraflokBack
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The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.

Howard · Joined: 21 Sep 2009 Posts: 5 Location: NM

Thanks 45. I have looked at all the diagrams I can find, including those you mentioned, and the hooks in question are not detailed anywhere. I suppose because they are a permanent part of the casting, albethey riveted on. I am beginning to suspect that the problem rests in the fact that the screen/film holder holder(?) is well worn where it slides into the back. I'm thinking that the worn area on the removable part, can be built up with taflon tape, or another felt light seal. The chrome arms do not appear to be mal-formed or worn down, nor are their stops. BTW, is the light seal stuff available anywhere? Ta.
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Howard

45PSS · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:04 am Post subject:

I'm thinking the arm springs items 10 & 13 (figure 9) are stuck and not allowing the arms to move properly. Corrison, many years of non use can cause the arms to stick. The arms should have 5 to 10 pounds of spring tension on them and move 3/16 to 1/4 inch total travel, fully locked to fully release position.
I just noticed that the manual is incomplete, no index past 14 is listed! Where is manual page 41 Rich?

The retainer pin(s) that the focus panel, item 15 with item 6 thru 14 attached, attach to via the arms, items 9 & 12, should be center of the film plane opening in the main back casting along the slot that the retainer arms slide in when the focus panel is positioned on the back frame. They should be chrome or silver in color and be .010 to .020 in diamater and pressed into the back frame so that they are supported at each end.
I can send you a jpeg of my Super's back which is very simular (minor differences in deminsions) pointing them out if necessary.

As for the light seal, go to a good fabric or hobby store and get a sheet of 1/8 thich black felt and cut a strip just wide and long enough to fit into the track using a razor knife or simular, remove the old light seal and glue the new in using the glue sparingly. An alternative is to use black yarn.

Work around: http://cgi.ebay.com/Cambo-4x5-Calumet-360%B0-Revolving-Graflok-Back,Excellent_W0QQitemZ220482353287QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20090918?IMSfp=TL090918203004r28981
Right click the graflok back picture (pc) and select save picture as, then open the picture in an image editing program and adjust the brightness/contrast (or use levels in photoshop) so that the pins that are center of the graflok sliders are visable. While this back will not fit a Graflex camera it is a graflok back and the focus panel lock pins and graflok sliders are the same/very simular to the Graflex Graphic Graflok back.
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The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.

Howard · Joined: 21 Sep 2009 Posts: 5 Location: NM

Hi 45, et al. Well, from all the descriptions and pictures I'm sure we're all on the same page. The chrome arms hit their stops, and don't appear to be anything but straight. My guess du jure is that the tips of the hooks have worn down significantly, and simply don't stick up far enough to engage the riveted hooks fully. I was simply hoping that there would be an elegant, old timer/Jimmy Olsen type fix. Oh well. Since I cant make the arm hooks longer, the fix appears to be either to build up the worn frame, or Dremmel gently on the chrome arms, under the stops, to allow more travel. I can't see why either would be a bad idea, but then I first thought bending the back hooks was acceptable, too, so please feel free to save me (and my Crown) from myself. :=) This is a very ccordial group. I appreciate the help. Ta
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Howard

45PSS · Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:58 pm Post subject:

Am I correct in assuming that you slide the focus panel up to where the arms contact the pins, push down on the knurled edge, slide the focus frame in the same direction as far as it will go, then release the arms and they do not enguage the lock pins?
Yes=Are the pins bent?
No=Can you take pictures with a digital that clearly show your arms and pins seperately? This site has no provision for posting photos on site but there are many free photo hosting sites where they can be put and linked to so that they show up here.
Anyone else got any suggestions?
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The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.

glennfromwy · Joined: 29 Nov 2001 Posts: 903 Location: S.W. Wyoming

You guys lost me on this one. I'm not understanding the description of the problem. I've never had to push down the arms to install the focus panel. I just slide it straight in and the arms hook by themselves with a solid snap. Granted, you do have to push them down and hold them to slide the panel out. The springs on those arms are stout. I'm just at a loss as to how the panel could be loose, other than broken spring(s).
Need pictures.
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Glenn

"Wyoming - Where everybody is somebody else's weirdo"

45PSS · Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:26 am Post subject:

Click thumbnail for slightly larger image.

This is a focus panel for the Super/Super Speed Graphic laying upside down on the camera back. The notches in the graflok arms are visible as is the lock pin and its mounting boss just outside the graflok slider.

The Super uses flat springs where the Pacemaker uses coiled springs and the shape of the arm is different but the pin notch should be the same or very similar.

The focus panel will snap very positively if pushed into place and pushing the arms down then sliding the panel into place is simply gentler.
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The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.

glennfromwy · Joined: 29 Nov 2001 Posts: 903 Location: S.W. Wyoming

Aha! Flat springs, eh? That partially explains my ignorance. I've never had a Super Graphic. I'm more of a coil spring guy.
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Glenn

"Wyoming - Where everybody is somebody else's weirdo"

Howard · Joined: 21 Sep 2009 Posts: 5 Location: NM

Good morning Glenn, 45, and all. Ok, heres the deal. Mid 50s Crown.with then std. back. Hooks riveted to the camera point down, hooks on the chrome arms (with coil springs, Glenn) point up. When slid together you get a firm snap, as 45 says. Mine, however, does not snap. Chrome hooks a bit rounded on the points ,maybe. Felt light strips flat ,maybe. Focus screen frame worn slightly thinner ,maybe. The net result is that, when installed, the frame has, maybe 1/16 inch of forward and backward movement (maybe less, but some). Just enough to let the frame fall out when carried by the handle and shaken a bit. Grafok works fine, as does the back in question, when used w/a sheet film holder. I can easily push against the GG to focus, so the movement is not a big deal, I just don't want it falling to the ground randomly. I just hoped some old timer might say " Yeah, in the 50s we used to cut a strip of felt from our Fedora and mucilage it in there", or something equally charming. Mechanically, a simple problem. I'm goin' for the felt. I'll let you know. Thanks all.
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Howard

45PSS · Posted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:51 pm Post subject:

I pulled out my digital caliper and measured the lock pins on my Super, they are .070. The old guys would have just replaced the back or focus panel or both.

Also, your problem is usually corrosion on the arms and springs or the springs not seated properly on the focus panel frame boss.
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The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.

glennfromwy · Joined: 29 Nov 2001 Posts: 903 Location: S.W. Wyoming

Hmmmmm - still thinking there's something wrong with the springs. When those are working right that panel is the mechanical equivalent of a snapping turtle. I can't even imagine how the other parts could wear enough to make it loose. The felt strip on those barely peeked above the surface when new. Take a look at the springs and "axle" on the arms. Maybe the arms are binding on their pivot point due to corrosion at the "axle/pin". The cast aluminum on those is very conducive to corrosion. They should move throughout their range of travel freely. The springs should be very strong. Perhaps a drop of lube at the swing point would help. With the panel removed, see how much travel the arms have and excersise them after lubing. The spring should put about 20 pounds of pull on the arms. Good luck.
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Glenn

"Wyoming - Where everybody is somebody else's weirdo"

pmanzari · Joined: 13 May 2009 Posts: 24 Location: NYC

How about loose springs on a Graphic spring back?

The ones on my Speed could use a bit more tension - no big deal, but it annoys me.