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Kalart Rangefinder help

 
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djv



Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 20
Location: chesapeake.va.us

PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I downloaded a copy of the instructions for adjusting the kalart rangefinder on my Mini SG, but I'm having some difficulty. I can get the unit set for infinity, but the front scale adjustment dosen't have enough travel to get the 4-5 foot range dialed in. If I adjust the rough adjustment screw behind the prisim to allow the 4-5 food range to be set correctly by the "suggested" settings for the 101mm lens I have, there isn't enough travel on the infinity adjustment on the bed rail to get infinity set right. For now, I've set the camera up so the rangefinder is correct for the closer half of the scale, since DoF is deeper at greater distances, but is there something I'm overlooking? Should I just (very carefully) make the slot on the infinity adjustment longer with a small rat-tail file?
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Graflex Sid



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 221
Location: London,England

PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh,Dear! if it was'nt for the 3,000miles + between us,I would have popped around and cured your problem.
I simple way out on these matters is (& it works on my 2x3's & Quarter plates)DON'T touch the rangefinder if you find the focus is out..fatal.
Place camera on tripod..
Open up lens to FULL aperture..
Press,to see subject of screen..
Set to say 15 feet a subject,preferable and outdoor scene (bags of light),set the rangefinder on this...
Go to hinged INFINITY STOPS,get tiny watchmakers screwdriver,slightly loosen,slightly move bellows until this is in SHARP focus on the screen,tighten screws.
Check again at say,6 ft on the screen..
It should read correct...

What Im worried about is...what you might have done with the rangefinder itself by turning screws inside,and throwing out the Vernier Focusing scales.(near the focusing knobs).
In the old days one could run this back to a competent Graphic serviceman to relocate...
...as I say,it's the pond between us,so I cannot help further.BUT don't give up..with patience,this can be put right.

Mini Graphics do have this focusing problem sometimes-both mine have had,but with a dose of medicine they have become well again..

Another tip,alway's check through the ground glass from time to time to look at the focus if your doing much shooting.It pays off!
Please,on a tripod with a cloth over your head and a magnifying glass against the screen.
Knocks at any time can throw the calibrations a little haywire,we are dealing with a classic camera everyone envies and needs sometimes tender loving care from us humans.Should be around in another 50-years,we might not,but the GRAPHIC should.

Keep her working at all time,I do!
Geetings From London to all.
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djv



Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 20
Location: chesapeake.va.us

PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I've got the infinity stops set, and I haven't touched the vernier scales, which are spot on anyhow. It's just the rangefinder itself I'm having difficulty with. What I meant by front scale was the one inside the rangefinder housing. According to the rangefinder's directions, a 101mm lens should be roughly set to 2 on the front scale, and 9 1/2 on the rear scale inside the rangefinder housing. The instructions have you walk though setting the rangefinder up starting at the infinity setting by adjusting the plate at the back of the rail that actuates the syncronization arm. From there you adjust the rangefinder using the rear adjustment scale in the rangefinder for targets in the 15-25 ft area. Lastly you're supposed to adjust the rangefinder for targets in the 4-5 foot range with the front scale inside the rangefinder. THAT is where I hit the snag. I can seem to get one end of the scale or the other in check, but never both.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 4081
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can get one end in but not the other then your center point is off, in this case the inital infinity setting. Run the yoke as far into the body as possible then out 1/8 inch. Set the infinity stops and infinity of the rangefinder here. If this does not work try 1/16 inch out starting point or 3/16 out starting point. Adjust starting point by 32nds or 64ths there after.
Example: 1/8 s.p. can't get RF closer than 12ft;3/16 can't get futher than 100 ft then try 9/64 or 5/32 on the + side; 7/64 or 3/32 on the-.
Charles

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[ This Message was edited by: 45PSS on 2004-04-02 18:21 ]
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troublemaker



Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Posts: 715
Location: So Cal

PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe Charles has a fine point here. But I will add a comment that seems aparrent on all three of my 2x3's at the close range settings. My scales are not even close at these ranges, even the one I am sure is mathced to the lens. The rack is farther out, but the RF is very close compared to the GG. I just went through the centering process Charles suggests when I added a Kalart form scratch on a Century. It is not easy to fix the arm in the proper position. If you match infinity on the scale to infinity on the GG by sliding the front standard and locking it. I assume this is where you have set the stops and re-checked the GG with a loupe or have it close. IT is entirely possible that your rail-scale does not match the lens, and therefore start here as you have done, and then go to 15' step. Did you loosen the long acctuating arm inside the body? DO NOT FILE ANYTHING !!! The KAlart should work for about 80mm to 135mm (someone correct me if I am wrong) but will definately work with 101, 103, and 105 mm lenses, I have all three and setting up a 135 shortly when time allows.
Is the scale on this camera the original on the front left of the dropboard? Black metal w/engraved numbers painted white? I suggest making sure you can set infinity as Charles implied. I will say it another way in case he confused you. Open drop bed. Turn focussing knob until rails are all the way back as far as camera body allows. Then move the rails out about 1/16 or just slightly more (probably no more than 1/8") The scale should then be right on or very close to the infinity allignment, matched up on both sides of the scale. Can you check this and get back to us? You should also be able to turn the eccentric cam attached to the back of the rails and achieve allignment on your RF for infinity at this point which it sounds like you very well understand. If not, the arm may need to be reset which is challenging, but can be done with trial and error (more on that if you need to). If you can do this and the lens focusses on GG at this setting your stops are in the correct place.
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glennfromwy



Joined: 29 Nov 2001
Posts: 903
Location: S.W. Wyoming

PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it an early model ('39 to '46)?
If so, there are a couple of possibilities for your problem. The most common is binding of the little sliding follower where it is attached to the bed. These get bent and hang up at various and unpredictable points along it's travel. The slider is at the bottom of the arm, on the bed.
The second possibity is that someone has removed the arm at some point, or it has (had) come loose and tightened again in the wrong position. The rangefinder shaft must be set in the rearward position (counter clockwise, looking at the end of the shaft) and the bed and arm all the way back before tightening the set screw. There are flats on the shaft to hold it while tightening the screw. Don't force the shaft back past it's stop! Infinity setting on the early models is made with the bed all the way back. Pacemaker and Century, about 1/8 inch forward, to coincide with focus scale. The later models have a different arm/bed contact. They have an eccentric adjustment on the bed to help with infinity setting.
Please don't modify any parts. That will cause problems, maybe irreversible problems.

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"Wyoming - Where everybody is somebody else's weirdo"
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djv



Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 20
Location: chesapeake.va.us

PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2004-04-02 20:13, glennfromwy wrote:
Is it an early model ('39 to '46)?


The lens is dated to '46 by the serial number, (EO and some numbers) don't know about the body but I'm pretty sure it's from around that time.

Quote:
If so, there are a couple of possibilities for your problem. The most common is binding of the little sliding follower where it is attached to the bed. These get bent and hang up at various and unpredictable points along it's travel. The slider is at the bottom of the arm, on the bed.


Nope, it's sliding OK, that was one of the first things I looked at.

Quote:
The second possibity is that someone has removed the arm at some point, or it has (had) come loose and tightened again in the wrong position. The rangefinder shaft must be set in the rearward position (counter clockwise, looking at the end of the shaft) and the bed and arm all the way back before tightening the set screw. There are flats on the shaft to hold it while tightening the screw. Don't force the shaft back past it's stop!


I'll check this when I get back to work tomorrow. I was hoping I wouldn't have to play with that since it's so close to the bellows, but I reckon it's worth a shot. I wa just afraid of messing with that because it seems the harder a part is to find, the more likely I am to ____ it up.

Quote:
Infinity setting on the early models is made with the bed all the way back. Pacemaker and Century, about 1/8 inch forward, to coincide with focus scale.


That's where mine is, and the focus scale on the bed works great, I'd just like to have a more visual point of reference for focus, without having to swap back and forth from the GG to the roll film back.

Thanks for the tips!
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troublemaker



Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Posts: 715
Location: So Cal

PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glenn,
the Graphic in question appears to be the older 30's model and also appears to be retro fitted with the later model side Kalart. I am not very familliar with the older models so go see...I just looked at djv's photos form his previous post, and it appears he has a mix and match camera. An older Speed, with a retro fitted Graflok, later model shutter, and a retro fitted Kalart. It has potential for taking nice photos, but since mr. djv has not seen the mechanics of installattion on a later model Graphic, I believe he may not be completely informed by what he is looking at. He ultimately has two cameras in one ! not a bad deal for free eh?
There are some revealing photos of his Speed from a previous post and may be viewed here:
http://sailfish.exis.net/~djv/msgpics/
Perhaps we can have a couple more photos to look at ???
The Kalart I just pulled off and reinstalled on another Century did not have flats, and it was not easy to get it close, but it is a 50's camera with the easy-adjust eccentric. I do not beielve our friend has this option with the older Speed with the flip up sport finder. I still think he should be able to get it working once we pin down where the problem lies and get the arm correctly positioned. As a side note, I had to tweek the arm on mine a little to keep it from hitting the slotted drop bed arm slider, and it was not installed properly on the camera I canibalized it off of. Needless to say, his kalart should work with relation to rail travel and focus in direct relation to the lens he has right?
I wouldn't suggest removing the arm until sure how to get it back in the right position if that needs to happen. On mine, without flats,I simply removed the kalart mounting screws and rotated it to an approximation for infinity, put the screws back in the side of the body, and checked, repeated until I was able to fine tune with the eccentric down on the rails. it took a while, and may have taken a couple hours without the eccentric. If I had a flat on the RF shaft it would have taken five minutes. If someone could look at it, it could probably be determined pronto.
regards,
Stephen

[ This Message was edited by: troublemaker on 2004-04-02 23:47 ]

[ This Message was edited by: troublemaker on 2004-04-02 23:58 ]
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djv



Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 20
Location: chesapeake.va.us

PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll take a few macro shots of the rangefinder and the surrounding area. I had kind of suspected that the rangefinder was kludged onto the camera at some point, as the two screws that hold the forward edge of the housing on kind of overhang the curve of the body by a millimeter or so.

It'll give me a good change to play with the EOS 1D MkII we just got in at work. I wanted to slap a macro lens on it yesterday but didn't get the chance.
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glennfromwy



Joined: 29 Nov 2001
Posts: 903
Location: S.W. Wyoming

PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah yes, the pictures help. Your camera is the early model and the rangefinder is probably original.
One thing I forgot to mention is there is an adjustment on the little bed rail slider to assist in infinity adjustment. My best guess, judging by your descriptions, is that the arm is not in the proper position on the shaft. Good luck and keep us posted on what you find----

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"Wyoming - Where everybody is somebody else's weirdo"
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troublemaker



Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Posts: 715
Location: So Cal

PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which KAlart instructions did you download?
There are at least two available on the site here, and this one has pictures of the adjustable actuator on the rails for setting infinity for new and old models:
http://www.graflex.org/speed-graphic/kalart-manual.html
Another thing that can be done to determine that the Kalart is working properly is:
the Kalart should function properly by itself. Even if it is off the camera you should be able to look through its upper mirror and move the arm to line up the image at infinity to 4 ft . Run the rails all the way out and beyond the travel limit of the arm. Then manipulate the arm with your finger while looking through the RF, making sure not to block the lower prism mirror, and see if you can make it work this way. this may also help you in determining that the arm location on the shaft is correct for infinity. This is how I found a rough starting point when I installed the arm on mine.
Have fun,
Stephen
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djv



Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 20
Location: chesapeake.va.us

PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rangefinder shaft on mine does have a flat spot, but the arm was already correctly set on it. The more I look at the way the rangefinder's mounted, the more I think this is a definite later add-on that just really isn't meant for this camera.

I think the way I'm going to deal with this is by adjusting it so it's correct at close and midrange, and say to heck with stuff over 100 foot out. At that distance, the DoF is quite large even at f/4.5 so it shouldn't pose a big problem. I'll just focus at that range by guesstimation and using the vernier scales.
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glennfromwy



Joined: 29 Nov 2001
Posts: 903
Location: S.W. Wyoming

PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too bad you can't get it into adjustment but if your scales are correct, your method should work well. Happy shooting -----

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Glenn

"Wyoming - Where everybody is somebody else's weirdo"
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troublemaker



Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Posts: 715
Location: So Cal

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it should take nice photos using the GG anyway, and I would say go have some fun with it and it will at least be an excellent introduction to medium format and you even have some large format movements on the front standard etc to play around with. If you like the vintage way of doing things, you might invest later in a Century or later model Speed or Crown that has all the goodies opperational or at least serviceable. Keep that lens, esspecially if the shutter and glass is clean and free of scratches and fungus, and if you can get those roll backs... You can't go wrong with a free camera for now. Later on you can get one in execellent or nearly so condition for the price of a Hasselblead film back or less ($150-200 avg. a hesselbla back being over 300, and you can't take photos with just a film back . Keep reading and shopping around for information. Although it would be nice to have the RF working proper, it might be best to go out and use the GG for a littel while anyway and get used to setting your shutter and f-stop, and handling the dark slides etc... A lot to remember when I first went out to do fast handheld stuff recently. Once I made the mistake of dropping the Dark slide in my pocket. You can guess what happened to the film when I popped the film back off. Also, if you haven't run any film behind that lens yet, you will want to use the GG anyway to check the sharpness, various shutter speeds, and then you will at least know where you are at with the lens. I have four Ektars, and they all perform differently, the most pristine being too sharp and contrasty for portraits, the worst of course being the best for softer images, and thus, not exactly worthless. Some might call it the vintage glow. I call it fungus and lack of proper care, but then some women look awfull perdy in thos torn up old blue jeans, so go figure??? That's a hint, go take some cool photos and let us know how it like the results and fooling around with a lens over fifty years old.
Stephen

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