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Date for Speed
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William Hallett



Joined: 07 Jan 2012
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:50 pm    Post subject: Date for Speed Reply with quote

Could someone please give me a construction date for 4 x 5 Pacemaker Speed no. 830975?

Thanks!
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Henry



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 1443
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

c. 1949-50.
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William Hallett



Joined: 07 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks! This one still has a Graphic back, so I'm guessing it is probably one of the last pre-Graflok's produced.
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
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Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Graflok back was originally an option, the default was Graphic.
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William Hallett



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks - I was curious, as I have only seen one other non-Graflok Pacemaker.

I was wondering about another constructional feature. This one has external bearings for the focal plane shutter, as do most Speeds I've seen. However, I have another 4 x 5 Speed from 1948 (as dated from the Ektar lens) whose shutter bearings are flush with the case and covered by the leatherette. Were the concealed bearings a feature of early Pacemakers?
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toolbox



Joined: 20 Mar 2014
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Location: Montana

PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

William Hallett wrote:
Thanks - I was curious, as I have only seen one other non-Graflok Pacemaker.

I was wondering about another constructional feature. This one has external bearings for the focal plane shutter, as do most Speeds I've seen. However, I have another 4 x 5 Speed from 1948 (as dated from the Ektar lens) whose shutter bearings are flush with the case and covered by the leatherette. Were the concealed bearings a feature of early Pacemakers?


The very earliest ones did. I have one in my collection...I haven't bothered to check the serial number, but I'm sure it's a 1948. They must have switched pretty early, as it's the only one I've seen without caps. There were also two styles of bearing cap--a small one (early) and a big one they started using in the mid-1950s. It makes a lot of sense to use the cap, as it's a whole lot easier to clean and lube that end of the curtain shaft.
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William Hallett



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks - that's very interesting. Any idea why they made the design change? Anniversaries and Pre-Anni's all have outside bearings, as far as I know. Perhaps they thought that burying them under the leather would protect them from dust, or maybe the decision was an aesthetic one.
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toolbox



Joined: 20 Mar 2014
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Location: Montana

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

William Hallett wrote:
Thanks - that's very interesting. Any idea why they made the design change? Anniversaries and Pre-Anni's all have outside bearings, as far as I know. Perhaps they thought that burying them under the leather would protect them from dust, or maybe the decision was an aesthetic one.


Afraid I don't know (maybe someone else does?) We can always speculate... My guess is that it was a style choice--functionally it was a step backwards, and I'm not sure how it would be any easier to manufacture that way. The shutter on the one I have with no caps needs a CLA on the shutter...I'm not looking forward to it lol. Much prefer the caps.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
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Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The curtain roller bushings are there on all FPS cameras, only their mounting is changed on some production runs, reason unknown, possibly a production line change for assembly speed.

Bushing outside diameter may be from whoever was making them for Graflex or a larger diameter was easier to assemble.
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toolbox



Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 7
Location: Montana

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

45PSS wrote:
The curtain roller bushings are there on all FPS cameras, only their mounting is changed on some production runs, reason unknown, possibly a production line change for assembly speed.

Bushing outside diameter may be from whoever was making them for Graflex or a larger diameter was easier to assemble.


Hmmm...I guess there's more to it than I thought...I'd always assumed that the "no bearing cap" was just a feature of very early Pacemakers, but the serial number on mine appears to place it in 1949...836071 (can you see what the book says?). It has an Ektar 152mm SN ES1348 in a Graphic Supermatic shutter. So the lens was made in 1947... That supermatic is bigger than the one they used for the 135mm, and they seem to be pretty uncommon. I have another one...it's on a Pacemaker Crown that appears to have been special ordered with a Graflex back.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

836xxx is in the middle of the block of confusion, anywhere from mid/late 1947 to 1949.

You can find the scoop on your Ektar here:
http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/kodak_4.html
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William Hallett



Joined: 07 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps the serial numbers of my two Speeds with bearings covered by the leather would be useful, if someone can date them:
- 4 x 5, serial 833825 (presumed 1948, as this is the date of its Ektar)
- 2 x 3, serial 707106 (has an Optar, so no clue as to the date)

In both cases there is absolutely no sign of any protrusion or anything but a smooth flat surface under the leather at the bearing locations, so this is not simply a case of covering the standard bearings with leather - they must be a different design. I serviced the 2 x 3's shutter some years ago, but can't remember what's in there.

The Speed that started this thread has outside bearings of the "small" type as described by Toolbox.
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

707,106 was in a block of 2x3 Pacemaker Graphics (Speeds and Crowns mixed) assigned 5/22/50. The next block of 2x3 Pacemaker Graphics was assigned 9/11/50 so presumably y'r 2x3 Speed was made between those two dates.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
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Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 833xxx Speed is in the same "block of confusion" as 836xxx.
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William Hallett



Joined: 07 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to you both for the dates. It looks as if there is no definite correlation between age and covered vs external shutter bearings.
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