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Storyteller



Joined: 01 Jan 2013
Posts: 7
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

45PSS wrote:

The focus panel is spring loaded and pulls back allowing a film holder to be slid in between the focus panel and back with the spring tension of the focus panel holding the film holder in place OR with the focus panel removed on a Graflok back the graflok sliders can be used to secure the film holder in place.


I would have never known or guessed this if I hadnt asked.

I'll still be looking for a focusing panel, but its good to know in a pinch I can zone focus off the scales or just set to infinity and get things far away.
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C. Henry



Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 359
Location: North East Georgia, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

45PSS wrote:
OR with the focus panel removed on a Graflok back the graflok sliders can be used to secure the film holder in place.

Charles;
While I hate to disagree with an expert such as you I find that the Sheet Film Holders that I have can not be reliably held in place with the Graflok sliders as they lack the groove on the sides for the sliders to engage.
I have Graphic Film Holder Type 5, Alkon film holder, Lisco Cut Film Holder, & Lisco Regal Cut Film Holder.
There may be film holders out there with the groove on the side that would be held securely by the Graflok sliders but I don't recall having seen any of them.

C. Henry
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1891
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Storyteller, two things. First, we all had to learn.

Secondly, scale focusing requires having the right scales of the lens used, setting the camera up properly for the lens used (the front standard has to be in the right position) and setting the scales up (they have to be in the right position relative to each other). You keep saying "yeah, yeah, yeah" and I keep wondering whether you understand what doing all this requires.
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Storyteller



Joined: 01 Jan 2013
Posts: 7
Location: United States

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, the lens that is on it is factory issue. Im going to hope and guess they have proper scales already installed. I'll worry about another lens and setting up scales for it after I get every thing else working with this one, testing for light leaks, getting the focusing panel etc.

Id gather you: install the lens, set it all the way back, move it forward until things far away come out of focus and move it back just before that point, mark that, put something a set distance away and focus on that known distance and mark that, then repeat at closer distances until you have all the points you want for focusing that lens. Im sure that is simplified though.

Right now, as you suggested, I just want to get the machine working and find out what the lens it has can do.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3244
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C Henry,
Film holders held in place with Graflok sliders only is a pressure fit, not groves like a Graflex back and will not be as secure as a focus panel hold.

If they will not hold on your camera then that suggest the sliders are loose or worn.

Story,
A clock with minute markings has 60 of them. Each minute marking is 6 of arc.

When, and if ever, you look at a matched set of focusing scales you will see a set of corresponding marks for infinity, a set for 100 foot, and a third set for 50 foot to the lens close focus distance which is usually 6 to 10 foot.
The reason for three index markers is that focusing from infinity to 100 foot is about 12 to 18 of arc. Focusing from 100' to 50' is about 18 to 24. Distance marks would be so close together that one would need a special magnifier to accurately read the difference.

When setting up anything on a camera the focused distance must be tack sharp at the film plane.
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Storyteller

ok the Century Focusing Panel I listed are the ones that work & they have hood ALSO this one

Graflex 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 Ground Glass Graflok Back
Item: 360553513725

AND to do most any thing with a Century with out Kalart rangefinder
you have to have Focusing Panel !!
to find infinity for ANY LENS you have to have the Ground Glass thats in
the Focusing Panel it ALSO holds in 99.99* of all Sheet film holders!!

one service manual say infinity is 375'

scale focusing requires having the right scales of the lens
Now you need to take off the long scales ON the back side should
be a number some where here we have a list what number for what
lens but post the number & I can look it up
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3244
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banjo,
FWIW from where I live the coastal hills in Millbrae are 1/2-3/4 mile (2640-3960 feet) when measured on a map. The USPS and Genentek buildings are 1 1/4 miles (6600 feet) away on the same map.
When I set up a rangefinder or lens on the coastal hills then without moving the focus position the optic on the Moon, Mars, Jupiter, or Sun (through a metalized Mylar filter) are soft and require a 1 to 3 reward arc turn of the focusing knob to get them tack sharp. When I use the buildings I do not have to make and adjustments to get the celestial objects tack sharp.

I've had some say to use 100 feet for infinity as infinity will be relatively sharp by f8.

1 arc turn = .04mm approximately of rail travel.
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Storyteller



Joined: 01 Jan 2013
Posts: 7
Location: United States

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

is this ebay item

290835789865

the same as this ebay item?

360553513725


the one you posted is cheaper now, but Im hesitant to let the other one go, it ends sooner, Ill wait and see if it goes first. I might go ahead nd snag it, better than the 70-90 I see people asking for them.
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1891
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

290835789865 shows more wear. I can't see the casting number in the pictures in the listing. Casting number or no, it seems to be the part you want. Now at $29.95, no bids yet, ends 1/6

360553513725 shows much less wear, has the same casting number (31716) as my four 2x3 Pacemaker focusing panels. Now at $1.29, two bids, ends 1/9.

I don't know how much you're willing to pay. I do know that price and bids "as of now" on eBay can be poor guides to the final selling price. I also know that two bids on a listing that has five days to run often indicates serious interest in it.

If I were you, I'd set up snipe bids at my limit, including delivery charges, on both items. I use www.hammersnipe.com for sniping. If I won the first auction, I'd cancel the snipe on the second one. If I didn't win, I wouldn't cancel the snipe.


Last edited by Dan Fromm on Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Henry



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 1443
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What Dan said. This is the exact part as on my Century. It can be fitted with a fresnel (I did mine) as it has notches in the corners, not visible without removing the ground glass. Hope you win it; IMO a Century without a complete focus panel (w/hood) is not a viable instrument. I do not like to see these cameras offered w/o the panel, because it usually means that the seller has separated it and is offering it at a dear price, when by rights it should be part of the camera. If the camera lacks the panel, it should be listed as incomplete. Removing the panel and offering a roll film back in its stead is kind of a weasel trick.
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tsgrimm



Joined: 04 Apr 2004
Posts: 158
Location: SE Michigan

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right on, Henry.

Recently, some seller seperated a 80mm Xenotar (which requires a very hard to find focusing scale) from a Century body. He was trying to get a crazy amount for the lens/board and a fair price for the body.

I went back to eBay and checked. He sold the body w/o the focusing panel for a fair price but not the lens and board. If they were both included as part of the camera it, IMO, would have been a fair price for that lens/body/focusing panel combo.

Now someone has a body that they probably will have to find a new scale for and the potential buyer of the lens/board combo will either have to make a scale or GG focus.

I'm a snapshooter and prefer the rangefinder, when I want to GG focus I use my 2x3 reflexs. Yes, I have a Century with the 80mm Xenotar and the correct focusing scale (one of three for that lens)


Last edited by tsgrimm on Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:07 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1891
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree completely with Henry and TS. Selling a Graphic with roll holder and no focusing panel is cruel.

Storyteller, here's another 281045839620 that has the fresnel. Other things equal, this is preferable.

About adding a fresnel. There's a lot of confusion about this. Factory issue fresnels in factory issue focusing panels go in front of the ground glass. Aftermarket fresnels go behind the ground glass. This because factory issue focusing panels came in two flavors with, alas, the same casting number.

Castings made for use with a fresnel have the fresnel/ground glass sandwich sitting on low bosses. Castings made for use without a fresnel have the ground glass sitting on high bosses. Both put the ground glass in register with the film plane. If you get a focusing panel without fresnel and later add a fresnel, put the fresnel behind the ground glass.
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hay 45PSS

the Super Speed Graphix service manual say infinity is 375'

I use the city water tower about 1/2 mile to set infinity
that works ok

but with somthing like a 65mm that almost hard to see!!
most of the other lens its ok

Right on, Henry.
they should be complete or as is parts

NOW I buy a lot as for parts! BUT I pay parts price!

but so minty are asking high price for PARTS Cameras

like
GRAFLEX 2-1/4 X 3-1/4 CENTURY GRAPHIC/125274
Item: 140900993356 @ $175.00


Graflex Century Graphic 6x9 without rangefinder
Item: 321019114936 @ $179.00
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Henry



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 1443
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan Fromm wrote:

Castings made for use with a fresnel have the fresnel/ground glass sandwich sitting on low bosses. Castings made for use without a fresnel have the ground glass sitting on high bosses. Both put the ground glass in register with the film plane. If you get a focusing panel without fresnel and later add a fresnel, put the fresnel behind the ground glass.

Yep, that's the way to do it alright, and I did (mainly because I don't see how else it could be done with the frame I have). I'm not sure the fresnel makes that big a difference, though. It might even make focussing with a loupe a bit more tricky, because you see all those fresnel lines in the image. Ah well, we live in a world of compromises.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3244
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
the Super Speed Graphix service manual say infinity is 375'

What page are you looking at? My manual says greater than 5000 feet in paragraph H. Rangefinder and Lens Synchronization on manual page 3.

One can set up their rangefinder as they wish.

----
The purpose of a fresnel is to eliminate hot spots on the ground glass so you can see into the deep shadows of the image being composed.
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