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Century Graphic parts shared w/other "baby" Grafle

 
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coloron



Joined: 15 Apr 2012
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:55 pm    Post subject: Century Graphic parts shared w/other "baby" Grafle Reply with quote

Are the bellows, lens boards, and perhaps some other pieces on the Century Graphic cameras shared with with other models of 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 Graflex cameras?
I am particularly interested in the bellows similarities as I recently obtained a "Century Graphic" bellows which is generally similar to the one on my Century, but differs in detail, such as the configuration of the rear end of the bellows, the number of pleats, and the front end of the bellows, which is actually quite a bit different.
I am suspicious that the bellows was not for a Century, but perhaps for a one of the other small Graflex versions.
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1888
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't answer directly 'cos I have only one Century and two 2x3 Crowns. The Century and one of the Crowns have bellows with 8 pleats, the other Crown has, if I counted correctly, 6.

Can't see how the Century's bellows is attached at the rear, the two Crowns are alike.

The rears of all three cameras' front standards, i.e., the front bellows frames, are also very similar.

There were running production changes, but in general parts should interchange. Does your odd bellows' front frame fit y'r Century's front standard?
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the babyspeed & the little crown have the same bellows
they have 8 tabs that hold them in place
the centuey has it own bellows it has 2 bars that hold them in place
NOW you can use the babyspeed & little crown on a century BUT you
can't use the century over on them!!
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OH the Graflex Miniature Speed Graphic used a different bellows !

But the lens Board end on the babyspeed , little crown & the century
are the same just the back end is different on the century!
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coloron



Joined: 15 Apr 2012
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many thanks for the responses. They have essentially confirmed what I have suspected, i.e., the new bellows is not for a Century.
Here are some photos of the old vs new.
The lens board end of the original bellows:


The lens board end of the new bellows:


rear standard end of original bellows:


rear standard end of the new bellows:


The rear of the new bellows, with the six tabs, will fit inside the rear standard opening, although the frame of the new bellows opening is about 1/4" narrower, 3" vs 3 1/4".

The front end fit presents considerably more of a problem. The metal frame of the original bellows appears to be crimped around the bellows material, preventing an easy removal of the bellows itself and fitting of the new bellows material.
Pleat-wise, the new bellows seems to have one less pleat than the original bellows. Will this cause any problem (assuming I am able to somehow get it mounted to the camera) with bellows draw using the standard 101 or 103mm lens?


Last edited by coloron on Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:21 pm; edited 2 times in total
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
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Location: kansas

PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the new bellows is off of a Graflex Miniature Speed Graphic

OK the century bellows can be streach out to 7"
baby/little can be streach out 6 1/4"
Graflex Miniature Speed Graphic I dont know?! maybe 6 1/4"

AND I have never tryed to take off the frunt end of one
BUT it don't look like any fun But probly can be done!????!
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3231
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A "45 Pacemaker Speed and Crown Graphic" service manual from the General Precision era has:
P/N 31061-G1 Bellows Assembly-second (no longer available) see note.
Note: replace bellows with 31061-G3 and two bellows retaining clips 32450.

The bellows picture matches the original you posted.
The manual lists the service differences for the 2x3 and 3x4 bodies. The early style bellows part number is 31061-G1. It is crimped to the back frame at the corners. The 4x5 has to have holes drilled to fit the G3 bellows.


Separating the bellows from its mount frame will be the easy part, reattaching it to another frame will be the hard part unless you have access to a pressure crimping device or don't mind using glue or RTV sealant to get the frame mating light tight.

What is the part number of the "new" bellows?
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coloron



Joined: 15 Apr 2012
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

45PSS:

Part number appears to be "24380" according to the envelope the bellows came in.
According to the info I have from the Century Graphic Service Instructions and Parts Catalog dated October 1961, the correct bellows is part no. 31740-G2. Presumably this would be a black bellows, and there is no listing for the red bellows.

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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
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Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://graflex.org/graflex-products-list.html shows a
black bellows century made from 1949-1954
red bellows from 1954-1963
above serial number 532884 from 1964-?


The service manual will have better information than most of us and will only be current up to its publication date.

What is the serial number of your camera?

The only cameras the questionable bellows could fit are the
1938-1947 Miniature Speed
1947-1958 Crown
1947-1958 Speed
1949-? Century
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coloron



Joined: 15 Apr 2012
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SN is 525607, which according to the Century SN info contained on this site would yield a production date most likely some time in 1958.

One interesting things is the CAMEROSITY serial number translation of the Ektar lens on the camera yields a production date of the lens of 1953. Either the lens laid around in somebody's (Kodak or Graflex) inventory for about 5 years before being installed in a camera, or the camera had a lens transplant some time during it's life.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SN 525607 is #707 of a batch of 1000 listed in February 1955 with the next batch listed in November 1958. Yours is most likely a 1957 or early 1958. Cameras were built according to demand.
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coloron



Joined: 15 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After pondering my bellows predicament for most of a day, I felt I was in danger of entering that state known as "paralysis by analysis". I decided to take drastic action. The first thing to do was to remove the old bellows from the front bellows frame, without destroying the frame itself.

The bellows, mount frame, and the tool of their separation, a mat knife blade.


The new bellows and the original mount frame, bellows removed.


The chosen method of attaching the new bellows to the original frame, insulation sealing tape,
1/2" x 1/16 thick. The adhesive on both sides is unbelievably sticky.
Trim as required with the mat cutter blade.


Remove the backing material from the tape.


Stick the mount frame to the bellows, and install the bellows into the camera body.


Rear of bellows. Note the missing lower Graflok slide assembly. Anybody have a spare one of those?


The finished bellows replacement. Not a high-tech solution, and not nearly as neat as the original piece, but workable, and we'll see how long it lasts. From my experience with that sealing tape, it will be there for a long time.


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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
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Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the next to last image you posted the white tape can be seen on the inside edge of the front standard/bellows. Paint it BLACK. High carbon artist paint will work fine.
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