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Crown Graphic 4x5 Widest Angle Ever Made

 
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:31 pm    Post subject: Crown Graphic 4x5 Widest Angle Ever Made Reply with quote

I just saw this one on ebad #120726502166
what do you all thank
BUT for the Price:US $575.00 Buy It Now
I can make my own for less then $50. out of my parts
box!!
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graphicdave



Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 66
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I was going to invest that much in a modification I think I would have used a body in better condition.......

Nice idea though.
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1888
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 38/5.6 Super Angulon XL's flange-to-film distance at infinity is 52.1 mm. It doesn't cover 4x5. See https://www.schneideroptics.com/pdfs/photo/LensCharts.pdf The 4x5 Crown's minimum flange-to-film distance is 52.4 mm, i.e., 0.3 mm too long.

As best as I can tell, Graphics' minimum flange-to-film distance is limited by a stop at the end of one of the inner bed rails. Removing the stop might let the bellows compress a tiny bit more. Perhaps someone -- Mr. Monday? -- can tell us whether a 4x5 Crown's bellows can be compressed .3 mm more if the stop is removed.

The camera modifications don't go far enough. Practically speaking, Pacemaker Graphics' only useable movement is front rise. With short lenses (short means "makes infinity with the front standard inside the box"), front rise is limited by the wire frame finder. The modified Crown on offer still has its wire frame finder.

I'm not sure why the front door was removed. I shoot a 35/4.5 Apo Grandagon on my little Century Graphic and dropping the bed removes the bed from the fame. Should work on a 4x5 too.
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graphicdave



Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 66
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan, are you sure the front door has been removed? It looks like it has just been shortened. A small amount of focusing travel seems to still be possible.
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1888
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave, you could be right, but where are the struts and hinges?

The focusing knobs and distance scale are there. Looks to me like the inner rails were replaced by a much truncated front door.
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graphicdave



Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 66
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No longer a front door, struts or hinges, just a bed for what's left of the front set of rails. I wonder what the closest focusing distance has been lenghtened to for whatever lens will be used?
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1888
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the closest focusing distance has been shortened.

I don't see the point of the modifications. Not at all. Do you?
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would probly put on a 23 lens standerd for
more room for more movement & a bag bellows
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3231
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Perhaps someone can tell us whether a 4x5 Crown's bellows can be compressed .3 mm more if the stop is removed.


Someone can send me a 4x5 Crown, preferably with a Top Rangefinder with matching lens and cam, then I can evaluate the modification possibility and accurately measure the cam height at various focus distances.

The referenced listing pictures tell nothing.
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graphicdave



Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 66
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the distance correction Dan, my photgraphy dyslexia struck again!

I really don't see the point of the hack either, unless he was looking for a wide angle vignette on the 38mm.
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tih



Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 7
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks to me as if someone decided to experiment with a "wide angle only" modification, getting the bed permanently out of the way, thus avoiding the hassle of retracting and dropping it.

As was mentioned, the way only the outer part of the bed has been retained may, in itself, allow the front standard to retract a bit further. Another change I would have made would be to shorten the bellows, thus affording more compression, and an even shorter front standard to film plane distance.

Here's an idea for taking this to the next level: remove the bed altogether, and mount a minimal front standard (just a frame for a small lens board, really) on adjustable, lockable, posts, like the Lensbaby folks did with one of their models. This would maximize movements while permitting very short focal lengths.

-tih
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1888
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="tih"Here's an idea for taking this to the next level: remove the bed altogether, and mount a minimal front standard (just a frame for a small lens board, really) on adjustable, lockable, posts, like the Lensbaby folks did with one of their models. This would maximize movements while permitting very short focal lengths.

-tih[/quote] What's the good of giving up easy focusing? Believe me, a 35 mm lens has to be focused.
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tih



Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 7
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan Fromm wrote:
What's the good of giving up easy focusing? Believe me, a 35 mm lens has to be focused.


One would certainly not be able to use the resulting camera hand-held, no. But on a tripod, using the ground glass for composing and focusing, my idea should maximize the flexibility of focus, tilt and shift for a wide angle lens on a Graphic body.

The four posts would be mounted in ball joints outside each corner of the film plane, and run through balls at the corners of the (small) lens board, where they would have individual locking screws to stop the balls sliding along the posts. This would allow focusing, along with vertical and horizontal tilt and shift. Once happy with the composition and the placement of the focus plane, you'd tighten the locking screws and load your film holder.

-tih
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1888
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're going to shoot from a tripod using a conventional view camera would be much simpler.
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tih



Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 7
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan Fromm wrote:
If you're going to shoot from a tripod using a conventional view camera would be much simpler.


...and that's what I do, of course. I won't actually be modifying any Graphics as described - I was just having fun imagining how to take this rather silly idea a bit further.

Now, if I *were* to do this, I'd probably mount a plastic lens on a Speed Graphic, creating a 4x5" toy camera with movements.

-tih
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