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RH-50 70mm film back
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Eugen Mezei



Joined: 03 May 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Transylvania

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 12:43 am    Post subject: RH-50 70mm film back Reply with quote

Hello!

Anyone can tell me which type of casettes and which type of 70 mm film I do need for the RH50?
Are the casettes special or identical to those from Hasselblad? Is the film one side perforated, both side perforated or without perforations at all?

I intend to buy such a rollfilmback as I could get one cheaply. But it seems to come without casettes and it is advertised to be 4x5". Does this mean I can use it on any 4x5 camera and does it mean the 4x5 part is only an adapter I could remove and get it replaced with a 3,25x4,25" one to fit my Speedgraphic?

I intend to buy some 70 mm IR film and it would be nice to be the same one I could use with a Hasselblad 70 mm back too. Even nicer when the casettes from Hassi would fit and perfect if I could use the RH50 on my Plaubel Peco III with the 4x5" reduction and on my Speedgraphic.

Can anyone enlighten me or drop me the tehnical data of the RH50, maybe even an users book?

Greetings,

Eugen
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3208
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only place in Graflex Graphic literature that the RH50 is mentioned is in literature for the XL camera system, (link) http://cameraeccentric.com/info.html .
The RH50 was available for the XL, a 2x3 camera. Xl Guidebook (link) http://cameraeccentric.com/html/info/graflex_2.html .
If someone is offering you an RH 50 in 4x5 mount then remove the insert from the shell and measure the film gate. Looking at the darkslide opening won't work. If the gate opening is 2 1/4 x 2 1/4 (6cm x 6cm) then the shell is for a RH12 or RH20; if it is 2 1/4 x 2 3/4 (6cm x 7cm) the shell is for a RH10; if the gate is 2 1/4 x 3 1/16 (6cm x 7.7cm) then it is for a RH8.
The RH roll holders for larger formats are made onto the frame and cannot be cut down to fit a smaller format. A Roll holder for 2x3 format cameras con be mounted to an adapter for the larger format easier but you will have to make your own adapter.

You can post pictures here by uploading them to an image hosting site then putting a link to them in your post or using the sites link to embed them in the post.
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Les



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 2682
Location: Detroit, MI

PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The RH-50 will fit all standard 4x5 cameras with a Graflok or international back. For the XL Graflex mounted a frame to the front that had for fairly large pins. The back did not use the 2x3 Graflok back but mounted directly to the camera.

If you buy a back with 3 chrome pins on the camera side, simply remove 4 screws that hold the frame on.

The cassettes are standard 70mm film cassettes, sold by Ekc for years. The same as the Hassy cassettes. the back uses non perforated 70mm film.

Finding a 70mm bulk loader can be hard and expensive. The alternative is to have a true darkroom and a way to measure out 15 ft of film at a time.

automated transport processing is the easiest. Finding a 220 tank and reel is equally difficult. The next option is to lose a frame or two and split the film up into 5 ft sections.


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Eugen Mezei



Joined: 03 May 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Transylvania

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your answers.

Unfortunately the seller can not offer too much information, the only one I could get out of him is, that the back works. (This is a welknown store for used photographic gear, I expected much more information. Maybe it is not worth for them to trouble for the asked price, although it is not advertised as "get it as it is".)

I don't intend to buy a loader, I will cut and roll by hand in the darkroom.
As an aside: I ever wondered why backs for 70 mm are so cheap but the loaders hold their price. I understand a photographer had maybe several backs but only one loader, still one would think that a lot of loaders are discarded this days. Did the big quantity users of 70mm used some other form to load than the handloaders we (amateurs) are looking?

Eugen
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Les



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 2682
Location: Detroit, MI

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trying to find logic in the collectible market is a fool's game.
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Eugen Mezei



Joined: 03 May 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Transylvania

PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well... if an ebay seller gives me the answer "I don't know" than I can accept this. But from a shop specialised to photographic gear I expect a bit more. At least that they mention in the items description "as is", so I don't waste my time asking questions they will consider not worth the time answering.

Eugen
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Eugen Mezei



Joined: 03 May 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Transylvania

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Les:
By Ekc do you mean Eastman Kodak Corporation? Glad to hear the back can use the same film as my Hassi back.
Are they any differences between the Kodak and the Hasselblad ones? I got the Hasselblads new for very cheap.

45 PSS:
I was assured by the seller that the back works. Whatever that means. They sell some other inserts to, separately. The RH50 will give me portrait orientation exposure of aproximatively 6x7 cm. Can I put an other insert to the shell of the RH50 to obtain other frame formats or is this an impossibility? (I would like 6x9 cm or maybe with modification 7x7 cm.)
I read in some other postings that the inserts fit only their shells, but I haven't understand clearly if no combination is possible or if only some combinations won't work. I thinky I have to study how this backs work to give myself the answer. As I understand the advancing mechanims is part in the shell part in the insert. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

Greetings,

Eugen
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Les



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 2682
Location: Detroit, MI

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The previous series of film holders, the original knob winds, and the RH series of 60-70s, could use different inserts, but only of the same format because the counter and the image size have to match.

The RH 70 was a different back entirely. The image frame was considered the ideal format as it prints to 8x10 without cropping. No other image size was considered. Modification by a machinist is always a possibility, but cost to re-design the counter and build gears, to achieve a 6x6 or 6x9 format would out weigh the cost of film you saved over just cropping the 6x7 image.

Yes the Ekc and Hassy inserts are interchangeable. I think you can use both perforated and non perforated film, but the RH-70 back does not have sprockets.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
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Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I based my previous reply on the information contained in the the Xl Guidebook linked in my previous reply, http://cameraeccentric.com/html/info/graflex_13.html Roll Film Holder Guidebook and possible misinformation or misinterpretation of the information in post http://graflex.org/helpboard/viewtopic.php?t=5706&highlight= .

Quote:
Can I put an other insert to the shell of the RH50 to obtain other frame formats or is this an impossibility? (I would like 6x9 cm or maybe with modification 7x7 cm.)


There may have been changes in the design of the RH series holders that prevent the insert of one size being installed into another size shell.
If the insert or shell has been modified to fit into another format there is one major problem that exists. Look at the picture of the RFH that is posted above or a RFH. The plate that is on the film plane side has a standard opening behind which is the darkslide. Open the holder and remove the insert then remove the darkslide. The hole in the film plane plate that you can see thru is the film gate, it must match the film insert format size for the combination to work properly. If you put a RH12 (6cm x 6cm) insert into a shell for 6cm x 9cm (RH8/Graphic 23) then the 6cm x 9cm gate opening will cause overlapping exposures on the film as the insert will not advance the film far enough to prevent it. If you put the same 6x6 insert into a 6x7 shell you will get the same type of overlapping but not as severe. Putting a 6x7 or 6x9 insert into a 6x6 shell or a 6x9 insert into a 6x7 shell will result in wide unexposed spaces between the frames.


The service manual for the RH50 does not specify film gate information. The catalog number for the 4x5 version is 1240. If you purchase the RH50 and want the service manual for it send me your email and preferred file format in a private message. The scans are currently 150dpi tiff and 12 pages; 112mb. (I should have read it before posting. )
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Eugen Mezei



Joined: 03 May 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Transylvania

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are the inserts interchangable between the different sizes of shells? Let's say a shell is advertised as 4x5 and inserts as 2x3. Can I buy a 4x5 shell and a 2x3 insert? Talking about the lever versions.

Eugen
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Les



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 2682
Location: Detroit, MI

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as they are both the same model (RH-8,12, or 20), yes.
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Les



Joined: 09 May 2001
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Location: Detroit, MI

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need to add a caveat to that. All of the colored lever handled roll backs can interchange shells and inserts providing the neg size is the same.

But the last version of the back, the ones that say Singer/Graflex and have either a thin chrome or thin black lever similar to a 35mm camera have a raised bump on the light trap of the insert that will not allow it to mate with an older RH shell of any size. That is of course until you file the bump down. The bump was designed to 'encourage' photographers to buy new holders rather than use the older ones.
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Eugen Mezei



Joined: 03 May 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Transylvania

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too bad, the inserts were sold. So I will buy the RH-50 with the insert it comes and will see if it is usable on my 3x4 Speedgraphic and if not I will use it on the Plaubel Peco III.
Not that it would make the Speedgraphic lighter. It sounds as heresy on this forum, but I can understand the succes of the Rolleiflex as a reporter camera.

Eugen
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Eugen Mezei



Joined: 03 May 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Transylvania

PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The RH-50 arrived, it looks exactly like the picture Les posted, except the inscription is red and it has felt around the film window. The plastic tip on the lever is black on mine.
I don't see any possibility to adapt it to my 3x4 Aniversary but I will use it on my Plaubel, I hope.
The window is 6 cm wide by 7 long, I hoped for 7x7.
Also, the spools are a bit sticky and thick dust sticks on them, is this normal? I hope I can clean them.

I would be interested in the manual, PM sent, please send the PDF to my email adress.

Btw, I bought it from KEH, my first and last transaction with them.

Eugen
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Eugen Mezei



Joined: 03 May 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Transylvania

PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Les wrote:
cropping the 6x7 image.


I hoped it is 7 cm wide but it is 6 cm wide and 7 long. Why did they waste so much of the 70 mm film? That is 5 mm on each side.
Not much gain compared to 120 film.

Eugen
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