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Flash Supermatic, no slow speeds

 
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mopar_guy



Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 126
Location: Washington, the State

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:03 am    Post subject: Flash Supermatic, no slow speeds Reply with quote

I just got a Kodak Ektar 101mm in a Flash Supermatic shutter. As I was trying the shutter at each speed, I noticed that none of the slow speeds are working properly. All of the red speeds seem to be about 1/50-1/100 sec. I guess I don't have much to loose by tearing into it. It is like the retard gears don't engage.

It sure is nice to have a hobby like this.
Dave
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glennfromwy



Joined: 29 Nov 2001
Posts: 903
Location: S.W. Wyoming

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those things usually respond very well to a good douche with lighter fluid. Just unscrew the lens cells and put them safely aside. Squirt the thing full of fluid and keep working it on 1 second. Repeat. Sit it out in the sun to dry out thoroughly. It's just gummed up. No harm, no foul if it doesn't respond. I've yet to get one that didn't.
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"Wyoming - Where everybody is somebody else's weirdo"
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panrhyder



Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 4
Location: wabash indiana

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:48 am    Post subject: lense sticking Reply with quote

i've used lighter flud it's just naptha and yes it's worked for me as unsticking the low speeds. i've also had some luck with grafite.
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey
it does work BUT the $$ can be high as much as I use
BUT CHARCOAL STARTER is also Naphtha & $$ is less

banjo
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troublemaker



Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Posts: 715
Location: So Cal

PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The right way to do this is disassemble the shutter and clean things properly and reassemble. You might think graphite works, but it will migrate all over the inside of the shutter including the shutter leaves, diaphragm, and sooner or later you will start to see it on the lens elements. I've seen this a lot and just serviced a Supermatic #3 that had graphite all over the inside, and as best as I could tell was the cause of malfunction. Flushing the thing out doesn't do much more than spread the old lube all over the place and further harden the gunk. Yeah it might work, but it is an absolute hack job.
As far as Mopar Guy's #1, the Supermatic's main drive and retard sector assembly are usually the culprit when all the speeds seem to be the same. These do require lube and gunk up after a long time so that when you cock the shutter the retard sector doesn't follow thru allowing the retard gears and pallet to do their thing slowing the return of the blade control assembly (closing the shutter).
Shutters that have been taken care of properly might only require partial disassembly to clean the easy to get to stuff, but once you use graphite, it insures the next person will have to completely disassemble the entire shutter to clean the blades, and the tiny fasteners that hold the diaphragm assembly plate and shutters leaves I find cross threaded often.
I've heard it suggested that the Supermatic runs best dry. This is folly. Their are places that if lubed carefully and sparingly will help prevent unnecessary wear, like in the cocking mechanism and main drive as mentioned above, but as important, this makes for a smooth operating shutter that will run more consistently.
Just sayin. And that is your daily flogging.
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mopar_guy



Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 126
Location: Washington, the State

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well here's what I did: Flushed with lighter fluid and allowed to dry.

Here's what happened: Nothing.

I agree with Troublemaker, the lens needs disassembly and CLA.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3229
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

manual offer no longer valid
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The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.


Last edited by 45PSS on Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:00 am; edited 2 times in total
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey mopar_guy

I don't Flush with lighter fluid !! I first let them soak for 24 Hr's!!
then I work them at different shutter speeds them soak agean!!
on one it was a week and I did have to disassemble part way !!
and used some caned air & a brush
just take your time !!
1banjo
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mopar_guy



Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 126
Location: Washington, the State

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charles,
Thanks for the offer of the service manual but I already have a copy of it. Also it is a #2 Flash Supermatic for a 105mm Ektar. I miss-posted originally. I would like to tear this down myself, I just haven't had time to do it yet.

1banjo,
Yeah, I did soak the shutter and worked with it for about a week but the slow speeds have never engaged. I am wondering if it is more than simply old lube causing things to stick.
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troublemaker



Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Posts: 715
Location: So Cal

PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope, unless you have a broken spring, the shutter should work with a proper cleaning and re-assembly. It's not just old lube, it can be lack of lube, or any combination of dried lube mixed with dirt, known as gunk, perhaps a little corrosion added in, and makes for a general high wear or no movement situation. This is an issue very much Supermatic. Compur and Graphex will tend to drag rather than fire fast. They have a very different drive mechanism. I should say different, but similar in that all these shutters use escapement wheels and pallets, but the cocking and actual firing of the leaves and the internal mechanics are apples and oranges based on the same principle, they are both fruit. The Supematic is the least complicated shutter, probably the best to start with if one is interested in servicing their own shutter. It is a simple design and doesn't require any special tools aside from a good pair of SS long dental tweezers, and a good set of jewelers screwdrivers, and a high quality small duckbill plier to get the main drive stud off (a small stiff needle nose may work but be very careful not to damage the hex of the stud). That said, it aint for everybody. There are a few tricks and tribulations that can't be gleaned from any amount of printed material.
Have fun
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