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Kodak shutter problems
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Oblio



Joined: 09 Nov 2001
Posts: 3
Location: Southeast USA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2001 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just started to use my Crown Graphic 23 that has been sitting for 35+ years. The Kodak Synchro-Rapid 800 shutter sticks on release and is only accurate in a narrow mid range of 1/50 - 1/400 sec. I contacted Steve Grimes and found that he does not service them due to reliability issues (fast courteous reponse to someone who was not a customer ... yet!). I was hoping to find a recommendation on repair shops that could service this shutter or things to try before I go down the road of getting a new shutter/lens assembly.

Thanks,
Chris
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Henry



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 1446
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2001 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two of my Graflex shutters had the same problem on the slow speeds: T,B, 1, 1/2, etc. Following a procedure described in Thomas Tomosy's "Camera Maintenance and Repair," I removed the front and rear lens elements and doused the shutter innards with a mixture of powdered graphite (available at hardware stores as lock lubricant) and lighter fluid (drugstore tobacco section). It sounds scary, but it works---that's assuming the problem is not due to something mechanical but is just a case of "tired lubricant." I mix the graphite and lighter fluid in a clean pinpoint oiler from the hobby shop, and squirt the mixture into works, front and back, and then cock and release the shutter through all its settings two or three times; also the iris diaphragm. The fluid evaporates leaving a thin coating of the graphite evenly distributed throughout the shutter innards. Reinstall the lens elements when everything is completely dry---half an hour should be more than enough time. This is worth a try before you spend real money on a rebuild.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3255
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2001 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



[ This Message was edited by: 45PSS on 2005-12-24 19:32 ]
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Henry



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 1446
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2001 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lighter fluid IS a quick-drying degreaser! If you have reservations about the graphite, then use the lighter fluid alone; this may redistribute the crusty lubricant and do the trick. I would definitely NOT recommend disassembling the shutter, nor would I recommend using ANY kind of oil on the works of a shutter---it's too apt to migrate onto the lens surfaces. All I can do is relate my own experience with the method I described in my post---I have had trouble-free service from my Graflex shutters for years now and NO problem with any graphite residue. Indeed the idea IS to leave a residue! That's what lubricates the works, and a dry lubricant like fine powdered graphite will not migrate to lens surfaces.
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hmartin@tns.net



Joined: 04 Sep 2001
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2001 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to store my lenses in an unheated part of my home. Then when I put them to use the shutters were sluggish. Now I store them in my heated/dry darkroom. No more troubles! Each one is stored in a sealed plastic sandwich bag and are hung from the ceiling.
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alecj



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 853
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2001 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris: Try Fred Lustig. 4790 Caughlin Pkwy #433 Reno, NV 89509. 775/746-0111. He might be able to help.

Steve wouldn't work on my Graphex shutter for the same reason, yet Fred fixed it by replacing a bent part with a new one. He seems to have the parts for these old shutters. Maybe he can help your Kodak too.
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daleraby



Joined: 24 Nov 2001
Posts: 60
Location: Green Bay, Wisconsin

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2001 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

two other dry lubricants I have used in the past to good effect; powdered teflon available from Boy Scout supply stores as lubricant for the wheels of Pinewood Derby cars, also molybdenum disulfide.... though this is suspended in a liquid carrier that evaporates quickly. Moly used to be available at gun shops. I've used in on gun locks and heard it works well on leaf shutters, never tried it there though.
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ajb



Joined: 01 Dec 2001
Posts: 7
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2001 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many times a shutter sticking is caused by old lubricant that has migrated out onto the shutter leaves. It then acts as a glue and sometimes will not let the leaves open or close all the way.

You can tell if this has happened by a sort of "footprint" on the leaves that is the same shape as the edge of the leaf.

The cure for this one (and also sticky diaphragm leaves) is a complete tear-down to get at the individual leaves and dry them off and polish them clean. Washing the assembled shutter in solvent won't always cure this problem, and may make it worse by moving the old lube around to where it makes things stick worse.



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Tony
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Henry



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 1446
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2001 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know about Kodak shutters, but a "complete tear-down" of a Graphex shutter involves disassembling the entire works from the front plate all the way back down to the rear, which is where the diaphragm leaves are located. Not a job for an amateur! I would definitely try the lighter fluid, with or without the dry powder graphite, procedure described in my previous post here (see above).
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Les



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 2682
Location: Detroit, MI

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2001 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I talked with an old Graflex regional sales man once. He said they sent him to Rochester for training in sales and at one point they brought the group of trainees into the Rochester repair facility and sat each one down, gave them a shutter and told them to strip it down and put it back together.

After an hour of fumbling the boss said, "Okay any body get theirs back together? No?

GOOD! NEVER TRY TO DO THIS OUT IN THE FIELD!!!
Send it to us, that's what we are here for.
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Henry



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 1446
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2001 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great story, Les! And how we wish "they" were still around to send it to!
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bob2309



Joined: 14 Mar 2002
Posts: 5
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2002 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are there any particular solvents to avoid. Acetone is universally the best solvent but it is often too good. Are there any paints or varnishes or plastic parts in these shutters? So the choices which will get greases are hydrocarbons such lighter fluid, chloronated hydrocarbons such as ethylene dichloride, oxygenated solvents such ketones, ethers, esters, and fancier things like tetrahydrofuran...a great solvent.

I ask this question with respect to the Kodak Supermatics and Rapax Synchromatic and an Ilex Acme Synchro. I assume all can benefit from such a solvent flushing. However, I recall reading somewhere that shutters (or some of them) were infact designed to work with no lubricant. Bob
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1892
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2002-03-14 17:12, bob2309 wrote:
Are there any particular solvents to avoid. Acetone is universally the best solvent but it is often too good. Are there any paints or varnishes or plastic parts in these shutters? So the choices which will get greases are hydrocarbons such lighter fluid, chloronated hydrocarbons such as ethylene dichloride, oxygenated solvents such ketones, ethers, esters, and fancier things like tetrahydrofuran...a great solvent.

I ask this question with respect to the Kodak Supermatics and Rapax Synchromatic and an Ilex Acme Synchro. I assume all can benefit from such a solvent flushing. However, I recall reading somewhere that shutters (or some of them) were infact designed to work with no lubricant. Bob
Ilex shutters have rubber (or is it some sort of plastic?) leaves. Best not to expose them to organic solvents.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3255
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2002 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



[ This Message was edited by: 45PSS on 2005-12-24 19:33 ]
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unique



Joined: 07 Mar 2002
Posts: 3
Location: nw indiana

PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2002 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tri-chlor aka freon TF is a zero residue solvent, great stuff if you can still find it. It was sold mostly for cleaning electrical contacts.
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