Graflex.org

Micah in NC · Joined: 26 Jun 2003 Posts: 94 Location: North Carolina

Hi,
I have a question on Polaroid B&W film, and included this in a post on the wrong board (S.G. board) so I'm posting it here now:

When shooting the peel-apart pack film in 3 1/4" x 4 1/4" size (in glass lens-equipped 300 & 400 series folding bellows Land cameras), I use a Polaroid-made "cloud filter," an orange filter, for making the sky and clouds stand out--much like the use of yellow and red filters with traditional, non-instant B&W films.

Well, I have a Polaroid Cloud Filter for my 300/400 series Land cameras, but it's too small to cover the Ektar glass, so I tried a Wratten A (red) and then a Wratten G (dk. yellow) filters. The result: NEITHER filter produced a darkened sky. With both I got blank, utterly white skies in my attempted shots with these filters. Why is that?

What did I do wrong? Does Polaroid Type 57 not act like normal B&W film? Could it be the fact my Type 57 expired in Jan. 2001? The exposures seem right on, just the skies were blank, stark white.

Any ideas? Should I try some orange filter?

Thanks in advance! I can't wait to shoot some more Type 57 with my Pre-Ann again soon!

--Micah in NC

Nick · Joined: 16 Oct 2002 Posts: 494

Les · Joined: 09 May 2001 Posts: 2682 Location: Detroit, MI

well you were close, I looked up in a Kodak filter book......

the yellows were under K, a K2 is the same as a Wratten #8,

The Greens were indeed X and an X2 is the same as a #13.

The A is the same as a #25 which is a fairly deep red and is part of a color separation pack, so it should have really knocked out the blue sky.

the G is the same as a #15, deep yellow by today's standards and used quite a lot with Protars to eliminate color fringing from the blue light. It should have had a noticable effect on the sky too.

Without looking at the photographs it's hard to tell but it's either expiration date, which at 3 years out I'm surpised you were able to pull a print, my old Polaroid always dries up. Or a greater than normal amount of cloud cover.

I've never been one to watch expiration dates. I use color film 2 years out, cheddar cheese 3 years+ (so my mild cheddar is now sharp, so what!?) but Polaroid gets pitched after about 6 months for playing with and 3 months for critical work.

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Micah in NC · Joined: 26 Jun 2003 Posts: 94 Location: North Carolina

Nick & Les:
Well, thanks for the input. I guess I didn't have any blue sky to make darker--silly me. I forgot these filters only work to darken BLUE sky. I had really overcast conditions, it was about 8:00 p.m. and there was soft, diffused light that really made a wonderful print of an old cabin. Next time, I'll know to use filters with blue sky. (I'm repeating it here intentionally for my benefit, maybe it'll sink in my brain!)

I was knocked out with my results, except for the skies, of course, given that this was my first-ever attempt on Type 57 (or any Polaroid 4x5 film, or even any film at all with a Graflex, for that matter)! I am hooked!!!

The grain is non-existant to the naked eye, which is amazing given that Type 57 is ASA 3000 speed film--and, as Les said, it's VERY old! The sharpness of the 127mm Ektar at f/32 just knocked me out!

Thanks for the help, guys! I'm a true Graflex convert now!

Maybe I'll spring for some Agfa 4x5" Scala film next! Anybody done that here?

--Micah in NC

RichS · Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:02 pm Post subject:

I'm glad you figured it out. I didn't think of overcast or I would have said something earlier...
I wouldn't worry about the age of the film much, especially B&W. I'm shooting types 52, 54, 55P/N and 79 (color), all at least a year beyond the expiration. All just fine, except maybe the color, but I never could get Polaroid color acceptable... The Type 55 may have gotten a little slower, but I was also using a new meter, doing some testing, and that may account for a drop from ASA 32 to 25? And this film was never even stored properly! Just left in the field bag along with the holder. Never tried type 57. But I may someday as that speed could be very useful! I'm a big Polaroid fan!

I've never tried the Scala for two reasons. I could only find one company in the US that develops it and home developing seemed a bit complex. If you manage it, I'd like to hear about it though. Actually didn't even know t came in 4x5!

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Nick · Joined: 16 Oct 2002 Posts: 494

Well they darken blue light. If you've got shadows being lit by reflected blue light they would get darker.

I've got the same feeling about Scala. Even with the national Canadian lab for Scala just downtown.

One of these days I'm going to remember to order all the chemicals and I'm going to try the method in this link.

http://www.ilford.com/html/us_english/pdf/reversalproc.pdf

I've got the equipment. So it's just the chems.

vic valis · Joined: 21 Nov 2001 Posts: 247 Location: San Francisco

A note on the Type 55: the paper print and the negative are different speeds... the paper (I think) is more sensitive, so if you expose for the print the negative will be too thin. Of course that means if you expose properly for the negative, the positive will be overexposed. I tend to expose the stuff around ISO 32... but then my portraiture tends to be high contrast and I need the extra exposure to open up the shadows. So while you experiment with the 55, be sure to check what it is you're going to be exposing for.

jeff

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Micah in NC · Joined: 26 Jun 2003 Posts: 94 Location: North Carolina

Rich,
Yep, Agfa makes Scala in 35mm, 120 roll, and 4x5 (but no other film sizes, apparently). I did a search for on Google last night trying to find a Scala lab that will process the 4x5 film (the Agfa site lists three Scala U.S. labs while the Calumet site lists a fourth), but none on the list I saw except Duggal (NYC) mentions 4x5 Scala capability.

The film is available at B&H Photo in N.Y. among other places, see:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh6/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=113466&is=REG

If that doesn't work, try a search on the B&H website for: B&H Catalog # AGS2004510

Duggal's site says "Scala AGFA is the most versatile B&W transparency film and comes in 35mm,120, and 4x5; all rates at ISO 200.
Duggal's Shooting Tips on Scala: For Fashion shots: Shoot at 400 ASA, Process +1 stop. For Product shots: Shoot at 300 ASA, Process +1/2stop. Shots for reproduction: Shoot at 200 ASA, Process Normal. Scala can be "pulled" 1 stop to ISO 100 and "pushed" up to 3 stops to ISO 1600. Scala processing costs $8 per roll of 35mm or 120 and $2 per 4x5 sheet.
Scala push or pull processing is an additional $2."

Duggal's site is: http://www.duggal.com/01photo.htm#

No, I don't endorse or work for either company. (I have bought some things from B&H Photo, but I've never used Duggal...yet). I'm just letting you folks know what I've learned.

I guess none of this web reference makes a hill of beans difference, though, until I actually get some Scala, shoot it, and see for myself what the fuss is about. Hopefully, that'll be soon!

--Micah in NC

RichS · Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:31 am Post subject:

Thanks for the link. I grabbed most of the Ilford pdf's a while ago since they make the only 8x10 film I can afford...
Did you notice the bleach? Concentrated sulphuric acid! There's the number one reason I haven't tried it. Just don't want to mess with the stuff. battery acid is bad enough... Which you can substitute for by the way, but I don't remember off hand the mixing differences.

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RichS · Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:39 am Post subject:

RichS · Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:44 am Post subject:

Nick · Joined: 16 Oct 2002 Posts: 494

Nick · Joined: 16 Oct 2002 Posts: 494

what percentage is battery acid? The acid bothers me to.

If you're willing to try a little experimenting the cheapest 8x10 is the lith film sold by Freestyle. 100 sheet box is $43.

For developer you'd need something like this.

http://members.aol.com/fotodave/Articles/LC-1.html

I've got a box sitting in the freezer waiting for me to find the time. With the 8x10 I can cut it down to 4x5 and it's even a better deal-))

It would also provide more of that vintage look since it's Ortho.

[ This Message was edited by: Nick on 2003-07-23 04:34 ]

RichS · Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2003 1:33 pm Post subject:

Nick · Joined: 16 Oct 2002 Posts: 494

I glanced at the book. In the formula they give the sub but earlier in the book they also mention the need to add sodium cloride.

I checked with the place I buy chemicals from and he sells 98% sulfuric acid in 1litre sizes or bigger. At 10ml a time that would last forever. Not something I'd like to have sitting around.