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8x10 Speed?
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After two years of searching for an 8x10 Speed, I gave up and bought an 8x10 B&J Comm.View. It's nice. But it's just not a 'Speed'. So I finally couldn't stand it any more and took action tonight. My B&J is going to be a Speed!!!
Or, maybe partially. Or something close, or not really that close... Actually, I just 'won' a Graflex 8x10 FP shutter back. Just couldn't resist having the biggest 'Speed' around
And I may be talking (asking) too soon here, but from the pics, I don't see any way of setting the speed of the shutter. Didn't think of it until I had already won... Now I'm wondering if something's missing... It looks like it has the speed chart like the old Speeds. No visible window & switch like the newer models.
Would anyone have any documentation to the 8x10 FP back? Diagrams, instuctions, anything? Is anyone familiar with it? Of course that wouldn't help until I get the thing... But if anyone's got anything, I'd surely appreciate being able to see it...
Thanks...
Rich...

P.S. Yes, I do know the Speed never came in 8x10 And why not? Anyone know? And I'm still searching & waiting for an affordable 8x10 Century Universal...ahhh...


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vic valis



Joined: 21 Nov 2001
Posts: 247
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know somebody out there will know more about this than I, but I've seen view cameras up for bid time and again with the backs attached as accessories. Graflex made view cameras, perhaps the FP back you have was an accessory. From the pictures I saw, they appear to have latched on seperately. Simple mechanical connection, removable easily as I recall. I'm gonna guess the back you have is pretty old. The ones I've seen come up have been natural wood finish, and have had the pre- and anniversary Greflex model speed controls. Sounds like you were looking for the later model controls. Describe what controls ARE there.

jeff

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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, this looks painted black. The only controls I see are the winder and a trip switch. It's possible that someone else made the back, but they think it's a Graflex and I never heard of anyone else making them. Of course it could have been modified through the years or made by someone else? I'm guessing it's missing something from the winder section...
It does just clip on like any other back, then the standard back clips onto this one. It's supposed to work and I have hopes. At least something neat to play with
and it "can be viewed for up to 90 days" here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15248&item=2933381361



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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1889
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2003-06-13 10:15, RichS wrote:
Well, this looks painted black. The only controls I see are the winder and a trip switch. It's possible that someone else made the back, but they think it's a Graflex and I never heard of anyone else making them. Of course it could have been modified through the years or made by someone else? I'm guessing it's missing something from the winder section...
It does just clip on like any other back, then the standard back clips onto this one. It's supposed to work and I have hopes. At least something neat to play with
and it "can be viewed for up to 90 days" here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15248&item=2933381361



Heavens, Rich, why don't you do things the easy way. With long lenses and huge boards as are used on 8x10, you ought to be able to hang a 4x5 Speed on an 8x10 camera's lens board and hang the lens on the Speed. This will help you use longer lens by getting a good foot more extension than the 8x10 offers.

Cheers,

Dan

"Have gun, will shoot feet"
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan, you're a genius! I never thought of putting a Speed in _front_ of the 8x10! What a great idea. I'll bet it would hold it too
But it does bring up a possibly practical idea. Using a 2x3 Speed body as a front mounted shutter? The box whould probably hold a 6x6 lens board and have enough room inside for the rear cell. Now I'll have to keep my eye open for a broken 2x3 Speed just to play with

Hey, if you fire a front mounted shutter at the same time as a rear mounted shutter, do the speeds add or multiply?

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[ This Message was edited by: RichS on 2003-06-13 11:23 ]
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1889
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2003-06-13 11:21, RichS wrote:
Dan, you're a genius! I never thought of putting a Speed in _front_ of the 8x10! What a great idea. I'll bet it would hold it too
But it does bring up a possibly practical idea. Using a 2x3 Speed body as a front mounted shutter? The box whould probably hold a 6x6 lens board and have enough room inside for the rear cell. Now I'll have to keep my eye open for a broken 2x3 Speed just to play with

Hey, if you fire a front mounted shutter at the same time as a rear mounted shutter, do the speeds add or multiply?

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[ This Message was edited by: RichS on 2003-06-13 11:23 ]
Flattery will get you nowhere, especially since I stole the idea. Learn more about the Thornton Pickard Roller Blind Shutter.

About using a 2x3, the only possible drawback is that the "O" opening in the shutter may be smaller than the back of the lens. That's why I suggested 4x5.

Cheers,

Dan
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clnfrd



Joined: 26 Mar 2002
Posts: 616
Location: Western Kentucky Lakes Area

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2003 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The question about tripping the front and rear shutters at the same time....if you're serious...is very interesting if illogical. Why anyone would want to do this is beyond me, but here goes. If, by some stroke of luck, you could trip the shutters at precisely the same time, (almost impossible to perceive), the speeds if they were, hypothetically, set at the same speed, then the speed would be the same as each shutter's setting. If one shutter was set, for example, at 1/200th and the other at 1/100th...then the speed would be the shortest of the two, or 1/200th.* However, if they were not in perfect sync, then the exposure time would be the sum of the two...converting to a common denominator...2/200th + 1/200th= 3/200th, or 1/66.66667th. Fred.
* This is incorrect. See correction below. Fred.

[ This Message was edited by: clnfrd on 2003-06-14 04:32 ]
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2003 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2003-06-13 13:28, Dan Fromm wrote:
Flattery will get you nowhere, especially since I stole the idea. Learn more about the Thornton Pickard Roller Blind Shutter.

About using a 2x3, the only possible drawback is that the "O" opening in the shutter may be smaller than the back of the lens. That's why I suggested 4x5.

Cheers,

Dan


Oh, sure... Now you mention that someone's already done the idea... Oh-well...

Yep, already thought of the small size of the 2x3 after I posted. And I may seriously still look into this because I've seen some gutted boxes go for very little money. It would be a toss up between the 3x4 or 4x5. The 4x5 may be a litle too big. I'd have to actually measure things. If I happen to grab a deal on a box, I'll deffinitely give this a shot though!


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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2003 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2003-06-13 17:44, clnfrd wrote:
The question about tripping the front and rear shutters at the same time....if you're serious...is very interesting if illogical. Why anyone would want to do this is beyond me, but here goes. If, by some stroke of luck, you could trip the shutters at precisely the same time, (almost impossible to perceive), the speeds if they were, hypothetically, set at the same speed, then the speed would be the same as each shutter's setting. If one shutter was set, for example, at 1/200th and the other at 1/100th...then the speed would be the shortest of the two, or 1/200th. However, if they were not in perfect sync, then the exposure time would be the sum of the two...converting to a common denominator...2/200th + 1/200th= 3/200th, or 1/66.66667th. Fred.

Great explanation Fred. Thanks!
But wouldn't you have to subtract the difference in sync time between the two shutters here?


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clnfrd



Joined: 26 Mar 2002
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Location: Western Kentucky Lakes Area

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2003 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. The exposure time of the film is the sum of any number of exposure times...no matter how much time elapses between exposures. *I made a mistake in the earlier reply. If two exposures were made simultaneously...one at 1/100th and one at 1/200th...the LONGER exposure time, or 1/100th would be the actual exposure time, of course. Fred.



[ This Message was edited by: clnfrd on 2003-06-14 04:33 ]
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2003 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay. But now if I put a 4x5 back on the 8x10 camera, would that double the the speed of the shutter since it's only covering half the film size?


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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1889
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2003 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2003-06-14 15:13, RichS wrote:
Okay. But now if I put a 4x5 back on the 8x10 camera, would that double the the speed of the shutter since it's only covering half the film size?


no. a focal plane shutter's speed is set by slit width and the speed at which the slit travels. neither has anything to do with the distance the slit moves.
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clnfrd



Joined: 26 Mar 2002
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Location: Western Kentucky Lakes Area

PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2003 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course not. The speed of a shutter is the duration of the exposure of the film no matter what the format, film size, etc. Fred.
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2003 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay... sense of humor was lost somewhere...


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clnfrd



Joined: 26 Mar 2002
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Location: Western Kentucky Lakes Area

PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2003 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you implying that I need to expose my film twice as long with my 2X3 cameras than you do with your 4X5's...or four times as long as with an 8X10? No wonder all my negs are coming out underexposed!!
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