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Date Please ... and Focal plane shutter ?

 
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 167
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:48 am    Post subject: Date Please ... and Focal plane shutter ? Reply with quote

Serial Number ... 846574
Believe its a Pacemaker Speed Graphic, as it has a focal plane shutter, and pre 1955, for the rangefinder was not mounted on top. (When it was attached, see below.)

Background:

Hmmm... a friend of my wife, handed her a box of Speed Graphic parts today, having found out that I have a Speed, and like film. It wasn't his, a neighbor several years ago, when they where moving, gave it to him. It use to belong to there father... ect.

Parts it is, No lens... no film holders. The 4x5 body, except for the focal plane shutter has been 'stripped'. The bellows looks good, and the Graflok back and ground glass look OK.
Looking at the focal plane cloth, with the back off, it looks fine and in very good condition. In fact the whole camera looks in good condition, so why would anyone strip it, even if they wanted to replace the bellows, which looks brand new.
The obvious large part items, seem to be all there... in paper bags, ect.. with screws in two 35mm film plastic case. but.. time will tell, as we may try to put the puzzle back together.

But first.. and this may solve the question of if it was stripped for parts.. The switch on the side of the Focal Plane shutter 'area', labeled, TRIP, BACK, FRONT is in the lowest position, FRONT, and will not slide up.
Cocking it, say to 250, it seems to operate correctly, but stops at 50, then 1, then 0, using the front 'trigger'.
That can't be right...

Sooo.. thank you, for any of your thoughts...
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shutterfinger



Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1950 speed, 4x5.

Last edited by shutterfinger on Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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C. Henry



Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 358
Location: North East Georgia, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter;

The the body release ("front trigger") should not trip the focal plane shutter with the selector switch on the "FRONT" setting, at that selector setting it should work the paddle that trips the shutter mounted with the lens.
My guess is that the focal plane shutter controls on the side of the camera have been disassembled at some time and incorrectly reassembled.
Winding up the focal plane shutter (cocking it) to 250 then releasing it lets the curtain move through one exposure opening in the curtain giving an exposure of aprox. 1/250th of a second and stop before the 1/50th (50) opening starts past film gate. Continuing to trip the shutter will have the curtain stop at the Time (T) setting with the film gate covered until the shutter is tripped again when the curtain will move to the full frame (O) opening over the film gate for a time exposure until the trigger is tripped again to close the shutter with no letter or number showing. At least this is how the FP shutter works on my 2 x 3 baby Pacemaker Speed Graphic.
Hope this helps you accomplish whatever you decide to do with that camera.

C. Henry
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3228
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The side switch has to be pushed it to move up.
C Henry is correct.
http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/graflex_5.html
check your pm.
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 167
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Henry...
thanks for the clarity... on:
Quote:
250 then releasing it lets the curtain move through one exposure opening in the curtain giving an exposure of aprox. 1/250th of a second and stop before the 1/50th


So, set on the front position, the curtain shouldn't move, but allows a lens shutter to work? (As in front of the camera)
It should only move when in the BACK position! (As location in the location of the curtain, in the back)
Quote:
The the body release ("front trigger") should not trip the focal plane shutter with the selector switch on the "FRONT" setting, at that selector setting it should work the paddle that trips the shutter mounted with the lens.


45pps..
Nah.. switch is locked on FRONT... and thanks for the link to Camera Eccentric, I have forgotten where all this good info is located.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3228
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
switch is locked on FRONT.

With curtain at O, governor lever at high, remove the wind plate by removing the screws around the perimeter and lifting straight up and turning wind key so that it aligns with the slots in the cover if necessary . Check switch operation with the cover off then set to front. Operate the body side shutter lever to verify it operates correctly.

Sit the wind plate onto the body ensuring the body side release arm is in the switch slot. Install the screws. Verify that speeds are correct in the window with the governor lever at either the low or high setting. Verify shutter switch operation.

Easier done than typed.
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 167
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well..
Quote:
Easier done than typed.


Had to take the whole thing apart, and the switch still would not move, unscrewed the little darling, cleaned it, and re-lubed.
Then we learned about the curtain, its adjustment, tension ect...
Had a hard time finding info on it in manual, so did by seat of pants... seems to be firing OK, kept increasing the tension, a few rotations at a time, until it fires crisp.

So..It works now in all three positions... and as advertized, will not fire in the Front position, only in the BACK position.

Next...
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3228
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Had a hard time finding info on it in manual, so did by seat of pants

Manual pages 7-10; pdf pages 13-16
common mistake is to over tension the shutter to compensate for other problems such as misalignment and dried grease. 10 turns is the limit for the tension adjustment, more indicates another problem exists. Wear may dictate more turns but eliminate other possible causes first for longest shutter life.
White lithium grease for gears;
graphited grease for roller bushings;
light weight oil for other movements.
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 167
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Took an in depth look at the parts this afternoon, and it was most likely taken apart for parts.. even the infinity scales, where taken off and placed in a plastic 35mm container, with the screws left in the rails.
The body is in good shape and the bellows looks good... allot of the parts are there, but not all. Also, most all the screws are missing, and in the same box where several parts for other camera's.

I doubt it, but anybody need something, that perhaps this unit may have?
If ya do, it will be just for the cost of shipping.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3228
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What focal length is the focus scale for? See: http://www.southbristolviews.com/pics/Graphic/manual-pdf/Grafscalst.gif Bed and rail sections matched?

The screws are easy to come by.
What major parts are missing?
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 167
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I've checked it out best to my ability, but want to verify, that the Crown Grafhic 4x5, is the same camera, as the Pacemaker, (having the same parts, screws ect,) but without the focal plane shutter?

The distance between the lens and the ground glass would be less, of course, but would the bellows still be the same size and interchangeable between the two models?

Background:
A fellow is selling a Crown that is in awful shape, exterior worn, lose, no lens. From the description it is basically for parts, although he did not say that.
If they are indeed interchangeable, for parts between the two, how much is such a thing worth. He wants $75, which seems high to me, for a camera needing a lens and sounds like it is barely functional, but I could use it to resurrect the Pacemaker, if the parts are interchangeable.

Any thoughts?
Thanks for your help.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3228
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pacemaker is the series name, there are two models Crown and Speed in 3 formats. Previous versions were one model a Speed in one format. The first 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 Speed was called Miniature Speed and was very similar to the Anniversary Speed 4x5.

4x5 Pacemaker Speed and Crown side rangefinder service manual:
http://graflex.org/manuals/45-Pacemaker-Speed-and-Crown-Graphic.pdf
covers the 2x3 and 3x4 versions.
Top Rangefinder Pacemaker Speed and Crown 4x5 only service manual:
http://www.southbristolviews.com/pics/Graphic/manual-pdf/servicemanual.pdf

Same part number is used for the bellows. I assume that when ordering a part one would specify which format the camera part was for. Assume that a 4x5 part from a Crown will work on a Speed and a part from a Speed will work on the Crown unless a specific part is listed for each model as in the case of the back attaching screws, 1st linked manual, fig 9 index 2 pdf page 42.

Bellows fig 5-5 pdf page 35; front standards have different part numbers.
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 167
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks... for the verification.
It may well be worth a try... but what about the cost?

I already have an 'orphan 3x4', so its not needed.
I think the challenge, is putting the Pacemaker back together again from scratch , then shooting some pictures with it.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3228
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A used camera is worth what one is willing to pay for it.
Good bodies without lens or board go for $200+.
Stripped bodies are frequently listed for $50+ on ebay, don't know if they sell or not.
Check it out carefully or have the option of returning for a full refund if the parts you need are defective.
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 167
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, that gives a ball part figure. $50.00 would seem to be about right.. for a parts camera.. but then..

I've checked once in a while for Pacemaker, and then today, got to thinking about the Crown, so will do some more research and check out the different sites.

thanks again ...
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