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LensBaby?... 3 lenses, one camera body..

 
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 167
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:47 pm    Post subject: LensBaby?... 3 lenses, one camera body.. Reply with quote

I have one camera body.. a 3x4 Anniversary Speed Graphic, with three lenses.
The rangefinder is adjusted for one of the lenses, the 135mm, the other two, (90mm wide angle and 180mm), I have to use the ground glass to focus. I have no problem with this.
Yet, when I want to use the 120 roll film adapter, it obviously makes it more difficult with the two lenses, that the range finder is not adjusted for, since my camera has a spring back.
(Yes, I have made a 'quick' unfasten and refasten attachment that helps out a lot, in order to change the backs so as to focus.)

So I have several questions..

A) Is it common to interchange lenses, on a large format camera, to fit the shot your taking?

B) Do you prefer to shoot mostly from the ground glass, rather than the rangefinder, or visa versa? ... Why?

C) Using a 120 roll film adapter, is there another solution, to taking shots off the cuff, for those lenses not correlated to the range finder, without having to use the GG and tripod?

thanks again for your help...
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1892
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:21 pm    Post subject: Re: LensBaby?... 3 lenses, one camera body.. Reply with quote

Quote:
A) Is it common to interchange lenses, on a large format camera, to fit the shot your taking?


Yes. Very.

Quote:
B) Do you prefer to shoot mostly from the ground glass, rather than the rangefinder, or visa versa? ... Why?


With my Graphics, I use the ground glass to focus and compose. Mine have Kalart rangefinders. Adjusting a Kalart for a lens is time-consuming and fiddly, not to be done will out shooting.

With my Cambo, I use the GG. There's no other way. It is a proper view camera and doesn't have a rangefinder.

Quote:
C) Using a 120 roll film adapter, is there another solution, to taking shots off the cuff, for those lenses not correlated to the range finder, without having to use the GG and tripod?


Peter, you have the wrong camera or the wrong roll holder for what you want to do.

A Graphic with a spring back and a range finder and the adapter to hold the roll holder to the camera (replaces the spring back completely) can be used only with the one lens the RF is adjusted for.

There is one roll holder that slips in front of a spring back like a sheet film holder and fits a 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 press camera, the 3x4 Adapt-A-Roll 620. These are very uncommon; I've had one, sold it years ago.

You have three options:

Get a 3x4 AAR 620.

Replace your camera's spring back with a Graflok back and get a Graflex roll holder to fit it.

Replace your camera with one that has a Graflok back. If you really want to shoot 120 film (which format? 2x3?), get a 2x3 Graphic with a Graflok.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3258
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
is there another solution, to taking shots off the cuff

Make a focus scale for each lens, focus with the RF, read the distance from the RF calibrated lens scale and transfer to the scale for the lens in use.

A 4x5 Anniversary 127mm factory scale has index lines for Infinity, 100 ft., 50 ft., 30 ft., 15 ft., 10 ft., 8 ft., and 6 ft..

A single index line on the rails will result in the distances on the bed being a few thousands of an inch apart. There should be enough room to make/mount 3 sets of focus scales on a 3x4 body.
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 167
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan:--

Didn't know anything about the 3x4 AAR 620, thank you, will look, but Graflok backs for 3x4 are also rare. Hmmm..

Quote:
Peter, you have the wrong camera or the wrong roll holder for what you want to do.

That's what I've been trying to determine and have been looking at a 2x3 Graphic's this past week, as you have suggested.

Originally, I got the 120 roll film holder for color, and have used it for that. As its so less expensive to buy and get developed.
The roll film adapter is a 6x6, and with the 135mm lens, it tends to limit the closer in landscape shots. For the shots I wanted of the red rocks which need more vertical, when in a canyon. That's why I got the 90mm wide angle.
(BTW I could confidently buy it for the 3x4 because of the help you guys gave me here on this forum.)

Sooo.. purchase another camera body, and dedicate that to the 120 roll film back, with the range finder adjusted to the wide angle lens.
Or get lucky and find a 3x4 AAR 620 and Graflok back, or just buy a 2x3.

Catch 22 is, you can buy a lot of 4x5 color sheet film for the above, and how efficient do I really need to be, focusing, and then changing the back?
After all I am constantly teasing my neighbor with his latest state of the art digital camera, when we go shoot, film is not instant gratification.
~~~~~~~~~
ah.. just as I was to post .. 45PPS.. another solution..
Quote:
Make a focus scale for each lens, focus with the RF, read the distance from the RF calibrated lens scale and transfer to the scale for the lens in use.

E) So you set up targets, at known distances?

Only need to do one, the 135mm is set with the 'locks' (don't know the correct term), the 180, has to go beyond these locks, to set up focus on anything much less than infinity.

F) What to use to mark?
A ultra fine Sharpie?

thanks for the replies..
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1892
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter, do you have a 3x4 or a 4x5?
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 167
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

3x4 Anniversary
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3258
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
E) So you set up targets, at known distances?

With the camera on a tripod measure from the film plane to the front edge of a focusing target such a the 1951 USAF lens test target, focusing from infinity. Set the rails to the same start position for each lens.
http://www.darkroomagic.com/DarkroomMagic/Camera.html

Quote:
the 135mm is set with the 'locks' (don't know the correct term

Infinity stop.
Quote:
F) What to use to mark?
A ultra fine Sharpie?


A piece of tape on the rails and a corresponding piece on the bed next to it, a straight edge, and a sharpie or a thin piece of sheet metal attached to the rails and a corresponding piece on the bed, a straight edge and a machinist scribe.
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey Peter
the newer camers have folding infinity stops
I would go with a Century Graphic as it has the Graflok back
roll film holders are more avable & for less then for the 3x4

But the best way is to find or make lens scales as 45PSS said
you just focus & read the main scale & just trancfor to the lens scale that you need

it takes some time to make lens scale but it works
the best way is to setup something like 300' for infinity
then 150'
then 100'
then 50'
then 25'
then 12"

and then focus at the targets
I put a strip of paper on the bed & a small on the rail with two marks
like on the scale thats ther

then do the samething with to other lens while you have it all setup

you can use both sides of you rail so you could get 4 to 6 scales
for that minty lens
BUT you also need infinity stops setup for each lens that you use
so you alway get then in the right place every time

BUT I would get a Century Graphic !!!!!
to do this this with & save the 3x4 for sheet film & 1 lens only
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 167
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

45PPS
Oh.. the targets, what I have been looking for, when I adjusted the range finder I used a target from Digital Dog to set on.. but this is much better, thank you
Quote:
A piece of tape on the rails ... thin piece of sheet metal attached to the rails and a corresponding piece on the bed


G) I take it this is just to mark the rail, as it could never stay on.. when you went to go to the infinity stops of the adjusted lens?

banjo..
Quote:
folding infinity stops

oh my.. sounds perfect... but.. this still will not work with the RF, ..

H) Isn't the range finder is adjusted to just one specific lens?
I tried it with the the wide angle 90mm.. I GG and RF focused with the 135mm, which was caught in the infinity stops, on a clear target in my yard, that was far enough away, to be close at infinity. Set the focus adjustment lock, (term?) so that the rails would not move at that location and then put on the wide angle 90mm, moved it up the rails with the bellows / lens unlocked, till it was in focus, with the GG, and then locked it. Of course it was also in focus in the RF.
Refocused, with the 90mm with GG much closer, read the scale, then put the 135mm back on, and the 135 lens was not focused on the closer target in GG or the RF, and had to be re-adjusted.

I) So what's the advantage of the folding infinity stops?
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

folding infinity stops if you have 3 lens you NEED 3 sets of folding infinity stops
1 set for each lens
they fold down so you can slide you lens past to the next lens setup
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3258
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Factory focus scales are two part; part A attaches to the rails via two #0 or smaller machine screws and nuts that fit into the grove on the rails with part B the longer distance scale attached to the bed via two #0 machine screws.

Pacemaker series and Century Graphic take the same infinity stop which, unlike the Anniversary infinity stop, will fold down and allow the front standard to pass over them without moving them.

The standard for Graphic cameras is to run the rails back to the rail stop then forward .040 .010 inch and lock the rails then set the lens to infinity and install the infinity stops and focus scale(s).
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

graflex INFINITY STOPS

INFINITY STOPS FOR SPEED CROWN GRAPHIC
Expedited shipping available
Item: 200768138952
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 167
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

45PPS:
Quote:
The standard for Graphic cameras is to run the rails back to the rail stop ...

Rail stop, all the way back into the camera, like you where going to close it up?
Quote:
...then forward .040 .010 inch ...

On my 3x4, the infinity stops are 2.5" from where the Front standard is locked to shut down the camera. That would be @ infinity for 135mm lens.
Sooo I don't understand forward .040 .010 inch
Quote:
...and lock the rails then set the lens to infinity and install the infinity stops and focus scale(s)

By .. install.. focus scale, I see two screws there, so it can be adjusted a little, is that what you mean?
~~~~~~

Infinity Stops: I'm still missing something here..
Questions:

H) Isn't the Infinity stop, placed and physically set, and screwed into the rail and 'locked' where the lens, that is being adjusted, is in focus, for infinity by using the GG, and then the RF adjusted to that?

Now on my 3x4, the infinity stops are set for the 135mm lens, and the RF was adjusted for that lens. So no other lens will be totally accurate, except at infinity, using the RF.

I) So even if I had folding Infinity Stops, I still could not use the RF for the other lenses, as it would be inaccurate for those lenses, correct?

J) So, is the advantage of the folding infinity stops, allow me instead, to get a close focus by reading the scale on, the rails for general focus, without using the GG?
...and I also would not have to ..
Quote:
A piece of tape on the rails and a corresponding piece on the bed next to it, a straight edge, and a sharpie or a thin piece of sheet metal attached to the rails and a corresponding piece on the bed, a straight edge and a machinist scribe.

..as its already part of the camera, using the original built in scale. Is this correct?

This is all for very clear to you, but remember I'm a newbie, and lost in the relationship of how all this goes together.. thanks for your patience.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3258
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.southbristolviews.com/pics/Graphic/manual-pdf/Anniversary.pdf
manual page 3 labels all but the focus scale which is shown in closeup on manual page 17.
Graflex calls the rails Track in this manual and yoke in another. What those thingamajigs are called depends on who wrote the manual in what era.
This manual: http://cameraeccentric.com/html/info/graflex_5.html will explain some of those other doohickeys banjo and I are talking about.

and the next time this piece of s__t dumps the post after 3 character spaces have been deleted with the backspace I'm going to go get my 5 pound sledge and permanently fix it.
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 167
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well a picture is worth a thousand words.. thanks for the links.. the manual and pictures help with the discussed concept to become reality, and cleared up most of the questions. Thank you.

Side note:
My goodness, the RF was considered an extra.. and the Dual Set of Scales, on the bed. Wow..
In the modern whorl, the nearest place that could have Century, or Pacemaker, to actually look at, and doesn't, is 100 miles away.

Well I can see and understand the advantage of the hinged infinity stops now, and how it relates to the rest
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