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3 x 4 Speed Graphic

 
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Mysterious Mose



Joined: 23 Apr 2012
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 12:31 am    Post subject: 3 x 4 Speed Graphic Reply with quote

I'm interested in acquiring a press camera for use in in general types of photography. I want to use 120 roll film and it appears that the Graflex numbered series works only on cameras with a Graflok back and the RH series works on Graflok and Graflex backs. Is this right?

I bid and won a 3 x 4 Speed Graphic. http://www.ebay.com/itm/110866899511?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 I haven't paid for it yet.

I came across this on the Graflex.org website: "As for 120 roll-film backs, Graflex did manufacture mount some on boards for 3x4" Graphics, but none of these had the critical pin-roller assembly for ensuring film flatness." Is this consideration important and a deal-breaker? I don't make a habit of cancelling winning bids, but this might be one of those circumstances warranting cancelation. In the alternative, is it feasible to get a roll film back and holder made by someone else?

By the way, is this camera an Anniversary Speed Graphic or a Pacemaker Speed Graphic?
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey Dan
pre Anniversary Speed Graphic would be a maybe as the lens is a 1937 or 38
as they don't have the Serial Numbers of the camera(its stamped some where on the inside of the body in INK on the older ones

it don't look like it has a drop bed

pre Anniversary Speed Graphic don't have Bed Drop (Anniversary and later)

now it has a Graphic back
http://graflex.org/speed-graphic/features.html#GraflokBack

it has one roll film holder AND thats GOOD as they are hard to find!!


as you want to use 120 roll film you would be better off with a
Century Graphic 2 1/4 x3 1/4 = 6x9 ( 6x6 , 6x7 )
as it only came with a Graflok and roll film holder are not hard to find AND
mamiya rb67 roll film holder

banjo
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bruiser



Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 259
Location: Northern NSW Australia

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Dan,

You have an Anniversary Model 3x4 Speed Graphic. The serial number is stamped into the wood underneath the top of the body near the front edge at the strap end.

In practice the film flatness is not a major issue so it's not too much of a worry unless you shoot with the aperture wide open a lot. You are lucky to have a roll film holder that does fit the 3x4 camera as they are hard to find. Your holder is the 22 model so you will get twelve 2 1/4" square images on a roll of 120 film. The 13.5cm lens on your camera will be slightly telephoto for the 120 film.

Load it up and start shooting!

Cheers,
Bruce
http://graflex.coffsbiz.com
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 167
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan .. I'm just a newbie, but have been using my Anniversary '46' 3x4 almost exclusively this year, to get more familiar with it, and love it. I have found that there are really not to many that shoot the 3x4 because of film issues. But its smaller and more compact than a 4x5. Your wanting to shoot 120 should not get you into the film issues, but Efke has some 3x4 B&W sheet film available for it. You can also purchase regular 4x5 film, and cut it down yourself, and its not difficult, if you ever want to try.

As stated, having a roll film back is a plus, as they are very hard to find. I was able to purchase a Suydam film back on e-bay, from a tip from Banjo and have found it a great way to shoot color, as I have not learned to develop color as of yet. After using some Tri-X 120, I found that I had to shim my film back to get proper focus, and as bruiser stated:
Quote:
...lens on your camera will be slightly telephoto for the 120 film.

I ran into this yesterday with my lens, (135, 4.7) trying to get a shot, and switched to my spring back and shot it with 3x4 film.
I noticed that your camera has a 120 mask inserted in the viewfinder, that and that there are few film holders, most likely this is what the previous owner shot, and your camera is set up for it and ready to go as a 120.

Have fun, this is a great place to get help and information from a great group of guys.
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Mysterious Mose



Joined: 23 Apr 2012
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:30 pm    Post subject: type of back Reply with quote

banjo: Is it a Graphic back or a Graflok back? You wrote, "now it has a Graphic back" but you references a paragraph on the Graflok back.
"http://graflex.org/speed-graphic/features.html#GraflokBack"
[/img]
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3256
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan,
that link opens mid page regardless of "back" description you are referencing.

The camera in the ebay link has a Graflex back and all the film holders and the Roll Film Holder are for Graflex backs so its good to go. Its easy to tell they're Graflex as there is a grove in the right edge of the holders that is easy to see in the photos. The Ground Glass panel will have to be removed to attach either a film holder or the roll film holder.

The Zeiss Jena Tessar is in a Dial Set Compur shutter.

An Anniversary Speed instruction manual is available here:
http://www.southbristolviews.com/pics/Graphic/manual-pdf/Anniversary.pdf
An Anniversary Speed Service manual is available here:
http://www.southbristolviews.com/pics/Graphic/manual-pdf/AnniversaryService1.pdf

I can service the body but not the Compur. Contact me via the private message function if interested.

Modern film base is thinner than the film at the time of manufacture of this camera and film holders. TriX and HP5+ are thick base film. TriX in 120 roll film is on a 3.9 mil base and HP5+ is on a 4 mil base while Fuji color is on a 3.5 mil base. A .010 thick piece of black card stock can be added to the pressure plate of the roll film holder so that the pressure plate contacts the outer most guide bars of the shell and the film rides on the shimmed portion between them. Film flatness in close up shots or focus errors at wide apertures may be apparent if the roll film holder is not shimmed.
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Mysterious Mose



Joined: 23 Apr 2012
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:32 am    Post subject: even more confused Reply with quote

Banjo sez its a Graphic back; 45PSS (Charles Monday?) sez Graflex. "Its easy to tell they're Graflex as there is a grove in the right edge of the holders that is easy to see in the photos." What groove in which picture?

Matthew Rusbarsky writes, in Photo.net,
"Danek, a few notes about Graflex backs. There are three; Graflex, Graphic, and Graflok. Graflex is the old version with the one slide on top (one to avoid), Graphic is the spring back (good for sheet film), and Graflok is the modern international back (good for sheet film and rollfilm) . Stay away from the Graflex (you only run into them on very old cameras and they are not compatible with the other two). The Graphic back is a pain in the ass with any rollfilm holder except for the aftermarket Adapt-A-Roll."

So, which type of back and is it easy to switch between ground glass for focusing and composing and the film back? "The Ground Glass panel will have to be removed to attach either a film holder or the roll film holder. " Is it removed by sliding it out or is it more involved?

"The Zeiss Jena Tessar is in a Dial Set Compur shutter." The lens is an attractive feature of this camera.

"I can service the body but not the Compur. Contact me via the private message function if interested. " Can you make appropriate modifications to the camera body or groundglass back or rollfilm back so as to avoid the flatness problem and provide for easy switching between groundglass and rollfilm?

I can receive PMs but have trouble sending them. Please furnish, by PM, your email address.
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey Dan
Yes it is a Graflex Back I do tipos some times

the best alaround back is the GRAFLOK Back //[ its now called a international back]

the chrome arms on the Ground Glass frame you just push in as you slide it at to the right & it gomes out
then the roll film holder you lock in place with the to slide bars
the better roll film holder for flatness is the RH 12 , RH10 / 20 , RH8
as they most all have two rollers in the frame just close to the darkslide
some of the insert have biger rollers that make them some what better too!
Mamiya RB67 roll film holder work on the 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 cameras
like the Century Graphic & it only came with GRAFLOK Back
some Pacermaker 23 Speed Graphic & Pacermaker 23 Crown Graphic
have the GRAFLOK Back


Mamiya RB67 roll film holder are good if not better holders BUT they did
not make it in a 6x9 only 6x7 , 6x6 , 645 , AND A 35mm & this just gives some size tto play with

Now I like the Horseman 6x7 & 6x9 roll film holder but you have to make them fit on Graflex 23 cameras its not hard to do ! but the 4x5 Horseman
work great on 4x5 international back

BUT on your 3 x 4 it will be very hard to find any more roll film holder
for and they never had the two rollers in side to help for flatness

and like Peter said I did help him get a Suydam film back for his 3x4
But his is a Graphic spring back
but Suydam film back made them for the Graflex back too But you have know what you are looking for !!

like I said I mostly use a Century Graphic But I do have a 3x4 camera
25 4x5s & 1 5x7

banjo
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3256
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too many good photographers on Photo.net state their personal preferences as absolute facts. It is sometimes hard to tell which is fact and which is personal taste.

Ebay: a run of the mill strip mall thanks to Meg Whitman.

Graphic or Spring back: has a leaf spring above and below the ground glass panel. Film holders slide between the ground glass panel and back frame. Has a grove on the right/film holder insertion side that a ridge on the holder fits into to form a light trap. Spring backs can be found on many makes of cameras. Leaf spring: a flat or slightly curved piece of spring steel. Resembles a palm tree leaf, long, narrow, and thin.

Graflok or International back: Ground glass panel attached with a arm top and bottom that is shorter than the length of the ground glass. Sliding lock bar top and bottom of the film opening that move inward and down to lock the film holder or accessory in place. Film holders slide in between the ground glass panel and back frame like a spring back or are held in place with the slide bars. Has a grove like the spring back that a ridge on the holder fits inti to form a light trap. A Graflok back can be found on any make of camera.

Film holders that fit spring or graflok backs are called standard holders.

Graflex back: has a ground glass panel as an accessory. Has a wider opening than spring or graflok backs but is the same length. Has a flat sliding bar on the top that only moves left-right with a fixed bar on the bottom. I have seen 1 camera that had sliding bars top and bottom. Back frame is raised on the film holder insertion side and fits into a grove in the film holder. Is the only back available on Graflex SLR cameras. It was made available for Anniversary and Pacemaker cameras as an option.
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