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Optar 101/4.5 diaphragm trouble

 
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Billy Canuck



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 151
Location: Calgary AB Canada

PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:37 pm    Post subject: Optar 101/4.5 diaphragm trouble Reply with quote

I have the above lens on a Crown 23 and have just found the diaphragm has developed a problem. One or more of the leaves is out of alignment and the diaphragm will not open and close correctly (leaves won't form a circle).
I need some advice. Is a repair possible or feasible? I'm thinking this may depend on what exactly is causing the trouble, but I'm not technically adept enough to dismantle the lens and have a look.
The glass is in excellent condition and so is the Graphex shutter. The rangefinder is dead accurate for the lens (I use a rollfilm back).
I've used the camera and lens for years with great success and I'd like to keep on using it. Any advice would be very welcome.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3203
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get another shutter.
The shutter blades and aperture blades either have two pins on them. one at the rear center that the blade pivots on and one a short distance from the end that fits into a cam slot that makes it follow a given pattern of movement.

The aperture blades are at the back of the shutter, everything comes out the front. A blade from another shutter of the same make and size can be put into this one.
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Henry



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 1439
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What 45PSS said. Getting at the problem area of this shutter requires a complete tear-down, as I read the Graflex shutter book. Sad to say, I think it would only be worth it if you could manage it yourself and had the needed parts, and even then we're talking a lot of time. It definitely would not be worth paying somebody to do it, even if you could find someone to take it on. Best look for another 101 Optar in Graphex; they aren't rare, and they shouldn't be expensive either. If you get another no. 1 Graphex shutter, just make sure your lens elements fit it properly, because this same shutter was used for the 65 and the 90 Optar lenses.
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Billy Canuck



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 151
Location: Calgary AB Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. That's what I was afraid of.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3203
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.southbristolviews.com/pics/Graphic/manual-pdf/GraphexShutterService.pdf
pdf page 18, manual page 16, figure 13, index 6.
Correction 1 pin is in one end and is the pivot point, the 2nd pin is in the other end which engages the aperture lever.

If you are real lucky the diaphragm plate screw(s) index 4 came loose and the diaphragm leaves simply fell out of slot but I think that the diaphragm would jam if that happened.

Wollensak Rapax and Graphic Graphex are the same shutter. Either of these #1 should work, if equipped with a different lens it will require the aperture scale to be changed.

Expect a complete CLA fee + parts for repairs.

http://www.flutotscamerarepair.com/
probably your best bet unless there is a similar service near you.
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Billy Canuck



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 151
Location: Calgary AB Canada

PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Charles, I've ordered a 101 Wollensak Raptar in Rapax shutter from a reputable dealer. It was listed at a reasonable price with good glass and all shutter speeds working but not tested for accuracy. I know how to try out the latter for a rough estimate of the actual speeds (good enough for negative film).
From what you posted I gather the Raptar in Rapax is identical to the Optar in Graphex. Does this mean I can use the same lens board? I imagine I'd have to do some adjusting to the rangefinder. Or is it possible that this may not be necessary?
I use rollfilm holders on the Crown 23, which has the rare Graflex back. I have a 2x3 Graflex groundglass which came on the back of a 2x3 RB, so adjusting the rangefinder should be possible if not easy.
I'm posting this in the regular lens forum rather than in a PM because I think the info may be useful for others. I'm always grateful for your expert advice.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3203
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
From what you posted I gather the Raptar in Rapax is identical to the Optar in Graphex. Does this mean I can use the same lens board?

To the best of my knowledge, the "Raptar" and "Optar" are the same lens, different marketing labels. The Rapax should fit your lens board as well as the Graphex does.
Quote:
I imagine I'd have to do some adjusting to the rangefinder. Or is it possible that this may not be necessary?

You might get lucky and get another lens within a few tenths of a millimeter of the lens you have.

You may have to only reset the infinity stops or you may have to readjust the RF as well.

You should be able to put your Optar lens cells into the Rapax shutter and continue on without adjustment also.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3203
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Last edited by 45PSS on Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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Billy Canuck



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 151
Location: Calgary AB Canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the illustration, Charles. It scares someone like me half to death.
I got the Raptar/Rapax, tested the RF against the groundglass, and it seems OK at the various distances. A test with film will tell me for sure.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3203
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Pin end A fits into the slot in the aperture lever and slides up and down in that slot as the aperture operates. Pin end B only rotates in the aperture plate. This is the back side of the aperture when assembled in the shutter housing.

This shutter was very dirty, and all lubricants were dried out. The Aperture had a slight bind at each mechanical limit of the aperture lever.

Now, for the fun of reassembly.
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Les



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 2682
Location: Detroit, MI

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the older large format dealer's dad had a camera store and was invited to Rochester when he became an authorized dealer. Right after lunch they were brought into a class room and a shutter, screwdrivers and parts trays were on the desk. Their task, dis assemble and reassemble the shutter in half an hour. and they were led to believe their authorization might be in jeopardy if they didn't complete it. Well dis assembly went quick, but then guys started to sweat, nobody completed the task. At which point the head of service told them, "DON'T EVER THINK YOU CAN REPAIR A CUSTOMER'S SHUTTER YOURSELF!! SEND IT TO US AND EVERYBODY WILL BE HAPPY!!" Now carefully put all the parts in the trays so our repair techs can put these back together.
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adamgarrickrobins



Joined: 02 Jul 2009
Posts: 38
Location: St. Johns, Oregon

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Les wrote:
One of the older large format dealer's dad had a camera store and was invited to Rochester when he became an authorized dealer. Right after lunch they were brought into a class room and a shutter, screwdrivers and parts trays were on the desk. Their task, dis assemble and reassemble the shutter in half an hour. and they were led to believe their authorization might be in jeopardy if they didn't complete it. Well dis assembly went quick, but then guys started to sweat, nobody completed the task. At which point the head of service told them, "DON'T EVER THINK YOU CAN REPAIR A CUSTOMER'S SHUTTER YOURSELF!! SEND IT TO US AND EVERYBODY WILL BE HAPPY!!" Now carefully put all the parts in the trays so our repair techs can put these back together.


NICE! This is an awesome story.
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Sirius Glass



Joined: 06 Jun 2010
Posts: 123
Location: Southern California & Virginia

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

45PSS wrote:
Expect a complete CLA fee + parts for repairs.

http://www.flutotscamerarepair.com/
probably your best bet unless there is a similar service near you.


If I said that Carol at Flutots Camera Repair was wonderful, then I would be putting her down. She is very careful and meticulous. Her prices are lower than anyone else I have dealt with.

Steve
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