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solenoid release

 
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sobahguy



Joined: 09 Oct 2001
Posts: 171
Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2002 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hello...i have just acquired a graphex (x) shutter for my crown graphic. i was wondering if anyone can help and elaborate on how to correctly to use the 2773 battery case to trip the shutter by means of the solenoid. what, if any, type of adjustments need to be made to the solenoid in order to fine-tune it for the proper delay necessary for #5 and #40 bulbs as well. i'm guessing that my solenoid has not been used to release the shutter for many years, if ever.
please let me know if more info is needed to answer, i'm just getting used to flash sync. thanks.....
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sobahguy



Joined: 09 Oct 2001
Posts: 171
Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2002 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi...i also should have added that i do have the graflite manual which explains how to adjust it but i really could not make alot of sense out of it. i was hoping someone could clarify it from their own experience.
also in order to fire a bulb do i need to use 2 cords attached to the 2773 case i.e. the household to bipost cord and the household to solenoid cord or do i just use one of them in order to trip the shutter & fire the flash using the red button? i hope i don't sound too dumb! any help is appreciated. thanks........
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alecj



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 853
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2002 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's my understanding that you can't sync that shutter with flashbulbs at normal speeds. If you use something like 1/30, then maybe so.

One thing for sure, you can't sync it with the normal 2 cord setup (1) one cord from battery case to solenoid, and (2) one cord from shutter contacts back to battery case. With that shutter, there's no delay built in, something necessary for flash bulb work.

Your only hope is to somehow adjust the solenoid tripping point to sync up with the flashbulb peak. When you trip the solenoid with the battery case button, [assuming the circuit is set correctly], the bulb gets the power while the signal travels down to the solenoid. The solenoid triggers the shutter and, if everything is right, the shutter blades are open when the bulb peaks. There is some adjustment there, but I don't have a lot of hope you can match them. For one thing, you'd need a solenoid adjuster. Now, if you could rent one from Les, .....

It's an interesting question, but your problem is figuring it out before you blow all your bulbs! Good luck.
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jdman



Joined: 13 May 2001
Posts: 302
Location: Midwest

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2002 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your X shutter will be used just like a shutter with no sync. You will use just the solenoid cord. 40 years ago I shot weddings with a 4x5 with solenoid sync and #5 bulbs, I do remember it was a bear to keep it in sync. I have the 2773 and a solenoid camera and I will see If I can figure it out and let you know. You have to get about 20 milisec delay for the #5 to be at its peak.Russ
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Les



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 2682
Location: Detroit, MI

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2002 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alec,
Now how did you know I have a synchronzing tester?

The delay comes from the sloppy linkage between the solenoid and the shutter trip lever.

One way to test is to set the flash up so it blasts the shutter, set the shutter to f8 and add a deep red or deep blue filter , neutral density and a polariser will help too. The idea is to absorb as much of the extra light as possible.

Focus on the primer of the flash bulb , close the lens add film to the back and set the whole thing off. Now process the film, It probably won't need the full time in the developer because it will/should be very overexposed.

Look at the lamp with a magnifier. If you see lots of filiament then the shutter tripped too early, if you don't see any filiment, and it's thin, it's timed too late.

I'm not sure how it's done , but I know it can be timed on an oscilloscope too. roger adams claims to have done it by ear.
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sobahguy



Joined: 09 Oct 2001
Posts: 171
Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2002 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks all..russ, if you can add any info about adjusting (synching) the bulb with the solenoid please pass it along. you could send a pvt message if it might get lengthy. my first wave of attack will be to get the solenoid to trip the shutter. then i can worry about getting the bulbs in synch with the wide open shutter. heck, since i conquered the kalart rangefinder adjusting project, there's no mission beyond control. thanks, again.
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hartwell_a_m



Joined: 04 Jun 2001
Posts: 84
Location: Northern California

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2002 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless you just want to use bulbs you should purchase a camera bracket with an installed hot-shoe and use a modern strobe you will just need to aquire a bi-post to what ever conection your strobe uses.
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Lensman



Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 63
Location: British Columbia

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2002 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have successfully adjusted a Heiland solenoid by first adjusting the plunger so it just trips the shutter. Then, with a flashlight bulb -NOT a Flashbulb - hay-wired into a lamp bulb SOCKET (remove glass bulb), or a screw base adapter to small flashbulb (like a #5 flashbulb)socket, again wire up the flashlight bulb to the small socket. Put socket in flash gun...Graflite or ?...and
hold or position the flashlight bulb in front of lens with groundglass back removed so you can look at the light that enters the shutter.
Try at lower shutter speeds until you see the brightest result of light. Increase shutter speed and continue to observe. On the Heiland solenoid there is an external screw for fine adjustment. I don't know if one on a Graphic solenoid, but the idea is to fine adjust the tripping to where brightest light seen at highest shutter speed. This worked on M bulbs- #5 etc.
Sounds goofy, but it did work.
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jdman



Joined: 13 May 2001
Posts: 302
Location: Midwest

PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2002 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sobahguy I sent you a private message. Russ
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Stephen Furley



Joined: 11 May 2001
Posts: 79
Location: London, England

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2002 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have found a method of adjusting a solonoid which doesn't need the proper equipment, or an oscilloscope, and seems to work ok.

The lens/solonoid to be adjusted is connected to the battery case solonoid socket as normal, with the shutter set at a low speed. The selector switch is set at 'N'. Another lens, with built-in syncronisation of the required delay, is connected to the shutter socket on the battery case. The shutter on this lens is set to the same speed as the other. The two lenses are set up one in front of the other, with a small lamp behind. the shutter on the second lens is tripped, wihch as the switch is in the 'N' position, will activate the solonoid, tripping the other shutter. If the solonoid is correctly adjusted, both shutters will open at the same time. Looking through the lenses, the solonoid is adjusted until the lamp can be seen, i.e. both shutters are open together. The shutters are now set to a higher speed, and the process repeated. when licht can be seen passing through both shutters at a high speed, say 1/400th, the solonoid is correctly adjusted.



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Lensman



Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 63
Location: British Columbia

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2002 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TO: Sobahguy...This site has the Graflite Manual reproduced with how to adjust the solenoid. This may be what you said you already have, but you could check it.
http://www.angelfire.com/art/architecturalphoto/
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sobahguy



Joined: 09 Oct 2001
Posts: 171
Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2002 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi again..thanks for all the help...
i've gotten the adjustment pretty close to
what it should be & have shot a roll of 120 using #5 & #40 bulbs and the negs look good. one thing that i wanted to ask about, though, that was brought up in another solenoid topic back last october...i had the same problem that another member wrote about in that it initially took me 4-6 pushes on the red button before the plunger pulled the shutter release to the point where it tripped. at that time i had left the link quite slack between the plunger and the release lever. another member (i believe it was les) had stated that it needed to be slack in order to allow the plunger to gain enough momentum to pull the release down. well i adjusted the solenoid vertically in its mount as was described at the back of my graflite manual, then retightened the mount screw & the shutter subsequently tripped on the first push of the button.
there is now, however, no slack in the link between the plunger and the shutter release. in fact, the shutter release is held down maybe about 1/2 way to its tripping point by the taut link. is this the way it should properly be set? i also cleaned all the contacts as best i could along with fresh energizers. the only way i could get the solenoid to trip the shutter on the 1st shot was to leave the link taut. hopefully this is okay & isn't inviting damage to the shutter release. any advice or experience would be appreciated. being a newbie can be a downer sometimes but i'm getting it slowly but surely. thanks.....
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jdman



Joined: 13 May 2001
Posts: 302
Location: Midwest

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2002 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solenoids are tricky, on mine if you do not leave some slack, the shutter will not reset on the Time setting, but works good on all other settings. I just disconnet to use time, like for focusing. Russ
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jdman



Joined: 13 May 2001
Posts: 302
Location: Midwest

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2002 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solenoids are tricky, on mine if you do not leave some slack, the shutter will not reset on the Time setting, but works good on all other settings. I just disconnet to use time, like for focusing. Russ
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Lensman



Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 63
Location: British Columbia

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2002 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your shutter has an 'M' flash setting, connect flashgun to the flash contacts, and if use a correct Flash Guide #, take a test photo NOT using the solenoid, and you will have a result that you can reasonably assume is correct as to synchronization, and then compare to your Solenoid adjustment tests.

Adjust solenoid to a position you feel likely to be close to correct synchronization. Take a picture using only the Solenoid for tripping and sync, and compare negative to the one using the 'M' shutter setting. Make any adjustments needed to solenoid, and take additional test photos to match density of negative from the 'M' shutter result.

I have not tried this....but intend to. I think the theory is correct as the built-in flash sync in a shutter is usually correct, so that any test photo is a good base from which to make comparisons

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[ This Message was edited by: Lensman on 2002-03-25 18:44 ]
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