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suydam roll holder

 
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cavphotog



Joined: 18 Jun 2001
Posts: 15
Location: Maine

PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:51 pm    Post subject: suydam roll holder Reply with quote

I just used one of these today and the pics seemed a little OOF. In checking the depth from camera back to film plane, it seems to be about 1/16" deeper than that of a cut film holder or the groundglass back. Is this normal for one of these holders ?

It seems that the way to compensate would be to move the front standard back by the same amount when using this holder.

Anyone else aware of this problem ?

Roger
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C. Henry



Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 358
Location: North East Georgia, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a difference in the film plane location between the "Graphic" and the "Graflex" backs. I suspect that you are using your suydam roll holder with the other back than the one it was made to fit.
Some other member will probably give you a more specific answer in time as this is not an unique problem.

C. Henry
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cavphotog



Joined: 18 Jun 2001
Posts: 15
Location: Maine

PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:48 pm    Post subject: suydam roll holder Reply with quote

I am using this holder on a Miniature Speed Graphic for which there was only the Graphic spring back. I can't find much info on the holder but I suppose it is possible that it was made in two versions. It came with the
camera when I bought it.

The mounting system appears to have been modified. If Graflex backs for this size took a slightly wider film holder, then that is the answer.

Are Graflex 2x3 film holders wider than the later Graphic holders ?

I am working the next two nights but will get some links to pics up.
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C. Henry



Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 358
Location: North East Georgia, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For more on this subject see "2x3 Graphic vs. Graflex film plane register" on the "Speed Graphic Help" forum. The Author is John Wilton and the last post is by Les on 18Mar2009 23:31.

C. Henry
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cavphotog



Joined: 18 Jun 2001
Posts: 15
Location: Maine

PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your help guys. It appears that the solution will be to back the front standard up the appropriate distance and leave the infinity stops in place, as I plan to use cut film as well.

Roger
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msswis



Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 5
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:05 pm    Post subject: Suydam roll holder Reply with quote

I was interested to see this topic as I have a Suydam roll holder for my 3-1/4 x 4-1/4 RB Super D. The previous owner told me he had made very sharp and beautifully balanced color shots using it with the camera. I did not get around to trying it till a few days ago, when I shot a roll of Efke 100 B&W film with it. I developed the negatives two nights ago and they were very sharp.

The holder is very plain looking, almost crude, without a bit of manufacturer's ID on the exterior. It looks somewhat like the 1930s "Rollex" roll holder I have for a 9x12 cm Zeiss Maximar, but instead of the European style tracks to slide into the camera after removing the ground glass as on the Rollex, it fits the back of the Super D perfectly. The name and address of the Suydam Co. in Pasadena, Calif., are stencilled on the film carriage inside. The dark slide is of unpainted galvanized iron. I do not know if it was original to the holder or a homemade replacement some time during the period of its active use.

There are 2 round red windows on the back of the holder, one in position for 8 exp. approx. 2x3, and the other for 12 exp. 2x2. There is no slide to cover the windows and no indication which is which except for an arrow someone scratched in the black crinkle-finish paint indicating to use the 2x3 window. The 2x3 mask is removable, and I suspect that at one time a 2x2 mask was available. It would not be difficult to make one.

I know nothing about the Suydam Co. and wonder if anyone here does.

My experience with the roll holder suggests to me that you have the wrong holder for your Miniature Speed Graphic, and that explains the out-of-focus negs you produced with it. Your Suydam holder was probably meant to be used with a 2x3 RB Series B Graflex.

Graflex sold a kit to allow owners of the spring back Miniature Speed to remove the back and install the type of roll holder used with the later 2x3 Pacemaker Speed and Crown Graphics. I have a Miniature Speed with such a kit, and the original mimeo'd instruction sheet from Graflex on how to install it. The Graflex and later Singer roll holders have light traps in the same position as Type 4 and Type 5 2x3 cut film holders, and they hold roll film in the same plane that a cut film holder will. Installing the kit is pretty much a committment to use the camera with rangefinder or scale focussing only. You can put the regular spring back and ground glass back on, but it is not convenient to do so for focussing purposes - and eventually you will lose the little screws or strip the threads in the wooden camera body if you put it on and take it off again too often.
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mopar_guy



Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 126
Location: Washington, the State

PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 Suydam rollholder. The darkslide is stamped steel and painted matte black.

Dave
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glennfromwy



Joined: 29 Nov 2001
Posts: 903
Location: S.W. Wyoming

PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suydam roll holders were made to fit dozens of different cameras. The holders made to fit Graflex backs are indeed wider than the ones for Graphic backs. The Graphic version came with little clips that held it to the back, using the spring screws. These clips are almost always long lost. The focus panel and springs had to be removed to mount it and you depended entirely on the rangefinder and/or focus scale. For Graflok applications, they are held on by the slides. Most versions came with masks for at least a couple of the 120 format sizes. Some came with all three. They were rather cheaply made, but they worked fine. I have a few that I use now and then.
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Glenn

"Wyoming - Where everybody is somebody else's weirdo"
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cavphotog



Joined: 18 Jun 2001
Posts: 15
Location: Maine

PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:29 pm    Post subject: re:suydam holder Reply with quote

If the ones made for Graflex backs were indeed wider, then that is what I have. Mine shows evidence of having been modified to fit a Graphic back. The flanges on the upper and lower edges look like they have been flattened from a former configuration. I can easily compensate by moving the front standard back the same distance as the difference in register between the holder and a regular Graphic cut film holder, about 1/16" inch.

Thanks all for your input.

Roger
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C. Henry



Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 358
Location: North East Georgia, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roger;

You have probably already thought of making a spacer of the same width as the difference in film plane locations to use between the infinity stops and the front standard, but if you haven't that would be my suggestion to solve the problem.

C. Henry
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cavphotog



Joined: 18 Jun 2001
Posts: 15
Location: Maine

PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:09 pm    Post subject: re:suydam holder Reply with quote

It is already in the works. There has been no sunshine here in the NE for many, many days. Maybe the spacer will be ready by the time the sun returns.
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